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Post by Aris on Oct 30, 2011 15:45:34 GMT 2
Would a ball game with no model number be classed as rare? Hi Graham, It depends. From a production standpoint, we believe 10000 of these were made. 10000 of any game in the G&W world, is not rare at all. However, even though 10000 of these were made, we've only ever seen about 6 of them. To me, this is very rare. So, IMO, at this particular point in time, I'd say a "model-less" Ball game is extremely rare! AC
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Post by andycole on Oct 31, 2011 15:13:25 GMT 2
10,000 is not rare? That's the same amount of Super Mario Special Editions. So it is rare!
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Post by Aris on Nov 2, 2011 16:09:40 GMT 2
10,000 is not rare? That's the same amount of Super Mario Special Editions. So it is rare! When I think of rare Andy, I think of games such as: - The lone known NOA DK3 that exists. - The 3 or so PS Fire Attack games. - The half dozen or so of NOA PO and NOA DKH games - Even the 8 or so PS Rain Shower games that exist. - Bosch, Smarties, Alsthome Atlantique, Van Dame, Mizuno, Candia, Dove, Friweg, SNCF, etc... releases. To me, 10,000 is not rare in the G&W world. The SMBS is indeed considered rare, but, that has more to do with the fact that these games were not readily available to the general public and could, originally, only be obtained by having particpated in a contest and meeting the criteria required for that prize. Essentially, this meant that these games were only available to the Japanese, or, perhaps, more accurately, people who happened to be in Japan at the time of the contest. True, a production maximum of 10000 units makes it the rarest G&W game ever made, and yes, we only have recorded about 80 or so of these on the Serial Number Database, but, again, I still say they're considered rare because you could only, for the longest time, get these from YJ, or through some Japanese connection, and not because only 10,000 of these were made. If half, or even a quarter of the produced units flooded ebay, there would be enough for every memeber here to have multiple units amongst their collections, which to me, is not rare at all. That's how I see it anyway. AC
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Post by andycole on Nov 3, 2011 15:55:16 GMT 2
I don't really agree with your logic. You're saying that you base rarity on how many we see available in the world today. Well, how many model-less Balls have you seen? Less than 10 I'm guessing.
While we're pondering release numbers vs numbers today, how many of each of the 'super-rare' PS do you think got made? I would expect it to be an absolute minimum of 1000, but more like 10,000 of each. I expect that less than 1/1000th of them still survive, whatever the number was.
And while we're at it, what proportion of ALL games do you think still survive? I reckon way less than 10%, probably 1%.
Andy
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Post by Aris on Nov 4, 2011 7:50:40 GMT 2
Why am I not surprised.... You may want to re-read my comments again Andy, I already stated that I think a "model-less" Ball game is very rare, and I base that not on the assumed fact that only 10000 were produced, but, on my supposed skewed logic, that we have only ever seen about 6 of these so far in the world today. Of course there is rarity of games based on production numbers. That's all straight forward, and can explain why certain games like Donkey Kong and Mario Bros. are rather easily found, and why games like Flagman & Egg, are a little more difficult to track down. But, I absolutely base rarity on how many we see available in the world today. Why do you think NOA DK3 is considered rarer than NOA DKH or NOA Punch-Out? Or why is PS OP rarer than PS DK, GH, M&D or any other PS Multi Screen game? It's because there have been fewer instances of these games than the others in the world today. And that is despite the educated guess that production numbers of these games, within their Series, would be very similar, if not the exact same. (i.e. there's no reason why we should think they made more NOA DKHs & NOA Punch-Out games than they did NOA DK3 games). Think of it this way Andy. Let's say they made 3 million Donkey Kong games, and they made 500,000 Oil Panic games. Now, based on production numbers, OP is quite a bit rarer than DK. However, fast forward to 30 years after the production of these games, and no one has seen a DK game on any auction site for more than 10 years now, meanwhile, OP games are all over ebay, Tradera, Marktplaats, etc... and have been for the past decade. Do you still think OP will be considered rarer than DK because the prodution numbers are so much less? Of coursse not! Because, in the current world of this example, Donkey Kong has become the Egg of the real world. Release numbers of PS games are unknown. So, whether they made, 1000, 10000 or even 100000 of each, the fact still remains, (even at an assumption of equal production numbers for PS games within a Series), the rarest games are the ones that we've seen the least in the world today, and that's why NOA DK3 is the rarest because we've only ever seen one of these games. Oops! Almost forgot. With regards to the "what proportion of games produced are still in existence today" question, well, your guess is as good as anyone's. Definitely has to be fewer than 10%! I'd say 1% is a good number to start with. AC
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Post by andycole on Nov 4, 2011 15:44:54 GMT 2
Why am I not surprised.... You may want to re-read my comments again Andy, I already stated that I think a "model-less" Ball game is very rare, and I base that not on the assumed fact that only 10000 were produced, but, on my supposed skewed logic, that we have only ever seen about 6 of these so far in the world today. LOL Yes, you're right, I re-read your original comment and our views agree Think of it this way Andy. Let's say they made 3 million Donkey Kong games, and they made 500,000 Oil Panic games. Now, based on production numbers, OP is quite a bit rarer than DK. However, fast forward to 30 years after the production of these games, and no one has seen a DK game on any auction site for more than 10 years now, meanwhile, OP games are all over ebay, Tradera, Marktplaats, etc... and have been for the past decade. Now you've confused me. Which DK are you referring to? Release numbers of PS games are unknown. So, whether they made, 1000, 10000 or even 100000 of each, the fact still remains, (even at an assumption of equal production numbers for PS games within a Series), the rarest games are the ones that we've seen the least in the world today, and that's why NOA DK3 is the rarest because we've only ever seen one of these games. I realise it's all unknown. I was just curious as to what others thought. I'm not expecting to solve any questions, just have a discussion. Here's what I think: We still don't know 100% exactly where the PS games were sold. Let's just say, for arguments sake, that it was Canada only. Think how many shops selling toys there were in Canada in the 1980's. Each of those would have to order a minimum of 10 (a shipper) of each title they wanted. That alone has got to put production numbers to at least 1000 for each title. And I don't think they would print less than 1000 of each box design. And I would think that the 'survival rate' would be roughly the same for each game. So, thinking about the numbers we have seen, leads me to deduce that the survival rate is 0.1% (one game survives for every 1000 made), and that the rarest game, DK3, had the minimum production number of approximately 1000, and the most common PS games, such as DK2, in the tens of thousands. What do you reckon? All based on guesses of course, but I like to do 'What ifs' Andy edit: The above is all referring to PS and their boxes. I would think that the survival rate for games is at least 10 times that of boxes, for obvious reasons.
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Post by Aris on Nov 7, 2011 19:30:40 GMT 2
Our views agree? Imagine that! The world MUST be coming to an end.... The DK I was referring to, in my hypothetical scenario, was just a regular DK game. As far as numbers go of PS games, I was thinking maybe only 2500 or 5000 were made. No real reason to fall on these numbers, but, like you said, no one knows for sure, and given the rarity of them, we can only assume that not very many (compared to production numbers of non-PS/NOA games) were produced. Given where these PS & NOA games pop up all the time, my opinion would be that they DEFINITELY were sold in the USA. I don't see as many of them popping up in Canada, but, I have seen a few, so, Canada and the USA (North America, essentially), would be the areas I would insist, PS & NOA games had to be sold in. I guess it is possible that the games we see popping up from Canadian sellers, might have been brought back to Canada after these sellers, perhaps, visited the US, but, I'm leaning more to the theory that they were sold in both countries. AC
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Post by Gamewatcher on Nov 9, 2011 22:29:39 GMT 2
Aris,
How come many of the rare PS games have the 'Grand Toys' logo sticker on it ? This Canadian retailer is over present on the PS range, not ?
In my theory Nintendo didn't have a clue in the 80's on how the US Market was organised and didn't succeed to list their products at the other retailers, except for their real big sellers like DK etc.
I know from my profession, that the US-retailer market is dominated by some really big players. Nego's are very tough when you arive as a newby on the market and have to face competition with all mayor National game producers,
Maybe 'Grand Toys' was the only retailer willing to sell the whole range. In my opinion this is the reason why some of these PS are so rare as they where only sold by this one retailer. In this theory a print of 1000 PS-boxes could have been enough. For Nintendo this was definitely not really a commercial success, but maybe the only way to stay into business in the US and build a bridgehead until their really big hit, the Game Boy, was launched...
Grtz, Beni
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Post by Aris on Nov 11, 2011 19:06:27 GMT 2
BVD,
When you say "Grand Toys", do you mean "Grand & Toy" by any chance? Either way, I may have seen the odd game or two with a Grand & Toy sticker on it, but, not many at all, and certainly not enough to draw any sort of conclusion associating the company with G&W games. For as long as I have known Grand & Toy, they have always been an Office Supplies retail store. You know, kinda like Staples or Office Depot. We used Grand & Toy to purchase our stationary supplies at the various places I've worked at throughout the 80s, 90s, and up to now , so, it's very surprising to hear about your observation. Sorry Beni, but, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "This Canadian retailer is over present on the PS range, not?" What do you mean by "over present"?
When I think back to my childhood days, I remember seeing these games in small retail stores , as well as larger department stores. Some of the stores' names were: "Good Stuff Games", "Games-A-Lot" & I'm pretty sure another was "Compucenter". Radio Shack sold handheld electronic games, but, it was always those cheaper brands, not the Nintendo Line. Some of the larger stores also carried them like the Toy Departments of Eatons, Sears, The Bay & Simpsons. I think "Mr. Gameway's Ark" , "Towers", "Woolworths" and perhaps even "Cosumers Distributing" may have also carried these games. But, with all my recollection of the various stores that carried Nintendo G&W games, I NEVER, EVER, saw a PS or NOA game in Toronto! And I spent a lot of time in the toy stores in downtown Toronto as a kid. LOL!
I don't know what Nintendo thought of the US market in the 80s, but, they obviously had big plans, and knew enough to build Nintendo of America in 1980, and being a newbie in the US, they knew enough to have MEGO TIME-OUT "distribute" their first four games. However, as a kid, I can tell you, with all the TV I watched, I don't recall ever seeing any Nintendo G&W commercials on TV, so, I think, maybe they could have done a lot better advertising their products to the younger crowd , by perhaps inserting some of their corny commercials between cartoons slots or something.
I think the other thing we have to keep in mind, is that some stores, (like Grand & Toy perhaps) may have ended up with these games AFTER the G&W line was already going downhill, and was being pulled from the shelves of the aforementioned larger department stores. I know some of these games were sold in stores like "Toys R Us", and in the US, lots of the games I've seen have "Kay-Bee" stickers on them. I've never heard of Kay-Bee before, but, I'm guessing it's kinda like Toys R Us. At any rate, my guess would be that Grand & Toy ended up with these games during this "downhill" slide, and that they did not carry them from the onset of their release.
AC
PS It's funny you mention carrying the whole range. That's the other thing I noticed, when I think back to the good ol' days. There were only a handful of games out of the 60 that I ever saw in the stores. Mainly, Fire, Octopus, Snoopy Tennis, Popeye, Parachute, Mickey Mouse, Donkey Kong, Mario Bros, Oil Panic, Manhole (NWS), Turtle Bridge and Mario's Cement Factory TT. I never saw any Crystal Screen games, Supercolour games, Silver, Gold, Panorama, or MVS games.
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Post by greggpaea on Dec 9, 2011 18:12:23 GMT 2
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Post by ash888 on Dec 9, 2011 22:11:43 GMT 2
Hello friends, my new game maybe you need a pics of petro,siteco,henkel...etc Aris? best regards.... hope for new year update my pics...... GrEgg Cool Popeye variation. What does the French mean that's listed above the screen?
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Post by greggpaea on Dec 11, 2011 15:20:52 GMT 2
thank! Fram was a french's company who saled a equipment's car,like oil filter or air filter..... and on this sreen is : "filters the most sold in the world". regards. GrEgg
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Post by Aris on Dec 11, 2011 17:52:34 GMT 2
thank! Fram was a french's company who saled a equipment's car,like oil filter or air filter..... and on this sreen is : "filters the most sold in the world". regards. GrEgg Hey GrEgg, congratulations on obtaining the Fram versioned Popeye game. Looks like the French did quite a few of these different branded games. I've heard of Fram oil filters here in Canada, but I guess they must be big in France too. Anywhere, here are a couple of commercials for Fram: What's next on your list? The Smarties branded Popeye game? AC
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Post by greggpaea on Dec 11, 2011 19:56:47 GMT 2
thank Aris, hey i like these link,thank!! i need candia now!!! best regards.
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Post by greggpaea on Feb 13, 2012 21:54:14 GMT 2
hello, for Aris: there is my new oem FA.........
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