|
Post by Aris on Feb 15, 2006 2:05:55 GMT 2
Aris. He still visits occasionally. Andy. And currently too! My, My, My, even when I don't post in this forum, I still seem to get a rise out of you guys eh? Fact is, this BIN thing happens all the time, by all sorts of people, including member S of this forum. So cut the selective whining, and don't start making me name names. Funny how in the past when this was done, people were practically praised: "nice swipe" "He sure does know the business" "I could have sworn it didn't have a BIN before. Nice buy _ _ _" "Way to go" "Nice item there" "Yes, it's nice and rather cheap" etc... All you need to do is check out the Cheap Items thread, as well as other threads in this forum for examples, and don't forget what happened with the most recent PS BlackJack game. Where were you guys then, huh? And when NTS won his boxed Snoopy Table Top via BIN did you all lose your voice? Apparently not, since two of you practically complimented him! While another known whiner seemed to be indifferent all of a sudden. What about ET's Boxed Popeye Table Top? That ended via BIN? Everyone's fingers must have cramped up all at the same time eh? Yeah, page 62 on Cheap Items, read it and weep hypocrites! I'm sure when you all purchased your games, you paid exactly what they were worth at that time didn't you? Oh, and you never haggle for anything? Do you do the same thing when you find out the house next door sold way under value? Do you run to the seller and tell them, 'look at these former closings of the same house, your house was worth at least 10 thousand quid more! Quickly, have the deal undone, and re-list it. Like G&Ws, sometimes people miss out on a great house b/c someone spots it before they do, and works out a deal for it before you even get a chance to see it. That's life. Tough. Suck it up. Early bird gets the worm. Life goes on. Live with it. There are a lot of things that are not fair when it comes to ebay. It's not fair that people with the deepest pockets can win whatever auctions they want. It's not fair that people with dial-up connections can't bid in the dying seconds of an auction like broad-band users can. It's not fair that some people use sniping software while others aren't even aware of it. It's not fair that people have an advantage at winning an item based on the time zone they live in. It's not fair that people use friends to place shill bids. It's not fair that people who already own certain rare G&Ws continure to bid on these same games whenever they come up. This can be endless guys! The fact that I won my items via BIN, whether it was initially there or not, is not the issue. The issue is that I won these games and you didn't, and the part that everyone really hates, is that I won these games dirt cheap. Surely if I had won these games via BIN for a price closer to their actual value, would anyone, including Mike and Andy be complaining? Would anyone be e-mailing the seller and trying to get them to break the selling agreement they made when they joined ebay? If your answer is yes, please refer to page 62 under Cheap Items and tell me where were you then? And as far as re-selling is concerned, don't even go there, b/c just about everyone in this forum re-sells. And in the majority of cases, they do so at a profit! I mean, it's not as if people buy games (cheap) from Yahoo Japan and then sell them on ebay right? BIN is an option that ebay offers. If you have a problem with that, go whine to Ebay. Ebay allows you to amend an ad to reflect a BIN price for a reason. It's completely within ebay policy. And I'm sure if I contacted ebay and informed them that you're contacting sellers regarding SOLD items and trying to convince them to renege on a legitimate deal, you would be using a new ebay ID! So, mind your own business, stop trying to stir up trouble, and if that's too difficult for you to do, then, if you're going to complain about something, be consistent. Sheesh! AC
|
|
|
Post by andycole on Feb 15, 2006 10:49:34 GMT 2
The fact that I won my items via BIN, whether it was initially there or not, is not the issue. The issue is that I won these games and you didn't, and the part that everyone really hates, is that I won these games dirt cheap. Surely if I had won these games via BIN for a price closer to their actual value, would anyone, including Mike and Andy be complaining? Would anyone be e-mailing the seller and trying to get them to break the selling agreement they made when they joined ebay? If your answer is yes, please refer to page 62 under Cheap Items and tell me where were you then? It is true that there's a lot of inconsistency with people's reactions to outside offers/private deals/added BIN's whatever they are, I agree with you there. But there is a BIG difference between someone listing an item with a BIN and then a buyer snapping it up and someone contacting the seller and persuading them to add a BIN price, whether it's cheap or not. So you're wrong, Aris, we would still be complaining. Well some of us would. If you did persuade the seller to put on a BIN of $65 for a PS mario bros, then you should expect to get criticized on here. If the BIN was already there, then you could expect some congratualtions for being in the right place at the right time. That's the way it is. If you don't like it, don't visit the board! That goes for anyone, not just Aris. Andy. Aaah...so that's why you're so mad (more than usual) - the seller re-listed it!
|
|
|
Post by devster on Feb 15, 2006 23:49:08 GMT 2
Hey, this ain't on, I haven't had my say yet and worst of all, Aris is starting to write longer posts than me and that's just a plain liberty!!! Right, simple facts.... What Aris has done (and others in the past, I might add, is underhand, a little bit slippery, not playing with a full deck etc etc.) Now there are two issues that I see and only one thing that I don't like. The two issues are what was negotiated and what was the seller lead to believe. If the seller was given a fair market price or even better to take the game out of the market, then fair enough, buyer gets what he wants and the seller gets good money. If the seller was lead to belive that the item was only worth $100 or whatever and obvioulsy the item was far more than that, like $500 or more, then that's being a naughty boy and you can't argue that. Now about the contacting of the sellers, I'll be honest and say I've done it. But I'm not going to sit here and say I did it for the good of the seller or I'm some sort of 'naive sellers crusader'! Yes I don't like to see people get ripped off but my motive is simple, to keep it on ebay so I can get it myself, I don't want anyone else getting it, do I! And I wouldn't do it it for a game I didn't want. I haven't actually done it often and when I do it's on live running auctions to ensure it stays on. I'm not saying I wouldn't contact someone after an auction closes and I've got a feeling I might have done it once before, but it would only be if I wanted the item (looking after no. 1). Getting a PS or whatever with a Cheap BIN that is listed with a BIN is fine, that's good luck and you take your luck when you get it. Getting a seller to relist with a cheap BIN, but you pay him the going rate is ok (although we will never know if he got the going rate?) Getting a seller to list a cheap BIN after convincing him/her its a good price is a no no and is wrong. (But that's an opinion) Now where was I. ;D Whilst I have said the above do I think what Aris and others have done is wrong? I might not agree with it or like it, but is it wrong? I don't know. You could rightly argue that the seller should do his research and more fool him/she. Think about why a seller would agree to a BIN in the first place? He or she believes they are getting good money and as they originally thought they were going to get $10 for a game that sat in the loft/attic for 20 years and are now being offered $100, happy days, what they don't know won't hurt them, will it? And part of the sellers greed obviously takes over, because 10 x what they thought they would get is a lot of money! The other point is when we see some fool who is a new collector pay $350 for a c7 squish or some crap game, do we all email the buyer and say, don't be silly mate you have just paid well over the odds for that game, withdraw your offer. Do we also email the seller and say, you rip off merchant, tell him it's not worth that much, no f*cking way do we. And when it happens to us, do we say, sorry mate you just paid far to much for that, I'm gonna cancel all the bids and re-list it!!! Errr that's a big fat no again. And how about all the people that don't have lots of $$$$$, what are they to do? This could be the only way to get the games you want. And if you don't like it because the person is going to re-sell, don't buy from them! In summary, you don't have to agree with what Aris or any other person does, it might not be right, it might be underhand, it might go against everything you stand for, but I would say this. Life ain't fair, it's dog eats dog and you all have to do what you have got to do to get by. It happened, it happens and it will continue to happen. S*h*i*t happens all the time and we all need to learn to deal with it. Basically everyone is up in arms about this not because they feel sorry for the seller, but because they are f*cked off they didn't get it. Having said all that, I'm not going to condem Aris for his actions, he did what he had to do to ensure he got the game and it worked. But then everyone got on the case and f*cked him up, that's another case of s*hit happening and now he has to deal with it. It's a war out there, some days the Aris's win, some days they don't. Be honest about it, you think he's a W*nker and he thinks you lot are W*nkers!!! That's it, I'm off, I've said my piece, so go ahead and flame me if you want to, it's a free world and we can all do what we want, right or wrong!! Paul p.s Everyone presented with an opportunity will take it. p..p.s This is the longest post I've ever written, I'm sure!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by mpanayiotakis on Feb 15, 2006 23:54:39 GMT 2
Aris, you're right that we didn't complain so much before about such deals. The reason we started doing it now is because it's getting out of hand. Nowadays, a rare item gets pulled in a matter of a couple of hours (even minutes!) after it has been listed. Even loose items get pulled! It's incredible! No collector can complete his collection under these circumstances and we are here to protect the interests of them. It's nothing personal, we even whine to other collectors who make outside deals and people we know since we started collecting, like Pat. As for resellers we always thought that their business is bad for collectors and I'm sure you understand why.
Anyway, just because Ebay and life isn't fair doesn't mean we should just accept that and abide by rules we don't approve! We should try to make it better, change things while we can. We can't allocate money differently, we can't buy broadband to people that don't have it, we can't relocate people but we can put pressure on people who use shill bidding accounts and give a fairer chance to any collector who wishes to get a rare item.
Michael
|
|
|
Post by Br3nd4N on Feb 15, 2006 23:58:00 GMT 2
I often try and snipe items, and I think anyone that does the same should not comment, or is in any position to condem others for doing the same....
in regards to contacting a member if they have payed or are about to pay 2 much, sure, I often do..... to offer my game in better condition to them for the same price.... ;D (trade secret)
-B
|
|
|
Post by gameboy on Feb 16, 2006 0:16:50 GMT 2
the seller thought his price was fair for a plain mario bros which it was, he based his selling price on completed mario bros auctions, he - like most other people out there and also newbie collectors (like me just a month ago) have no idea what a pocketsize version is and of its rarity Im sure Aris didnt want to describe to the seller what a rare item he was selling before sniping it
|
|
|
Post by swedengame on Feb 16, 2006 1:17:54 GMT 2
in regards to contacting a member if they have payed or are about to pay 2 much, sure, I often do..... to offer my game in better condition to them for the same price.... ;D (trade secret) -B Are you referring to ebay members who have won a auction? If you are, then that's not a very nice thing to do! :mad: How would you feel if it happened to you? I bet you wouldn't be so smiley about it then.. :rolleyes:
|
|
|
Post by Br3nd4N on Feb 16, 2006 1:26:02 GMT 2
No, I allways offer my items before bidding ends, or I offer to the next runner up, or I ask the member what there after
:-)
-B
|
|
|
Post by Aris on Feb 16, 2006 2:32:20 GMT 2
Gentlemen, I would have replied sooner, but I fell asleep whilst reading Devster's response. ;p Firstly, those do-gooders who contacted the seller and gave him my whole lifetime history on this forum, get a life! What goes on in this forum, should stay in this forum, and a newbie like me shouldn't have to tell you that. Andy, not sure why I need to point this out to you, since, for the most part, you seem to be a pretty bright guy, and it's not rocket science, but anyway, here it goes: my examples ARE of scenarios where the BIN was later added, so no, YOU are wrong! As for your 'don't like it, don't visit' comment, what I have done is within ebay rules, so if YOU don't like THAT, don't visit ebay. Paul, dude, there is way too much to comment on, but I'll tell you this, this $60 figure that has lit a fire under everyone's ass, is what he came up with, not me! Whether it is fair or not, is nobody's business other than mine and his. Unless you guys work for ebay's fair pricing patrol unit, AT BEST, you would still be worse than I am for winning this game via BIN. And yeah Paul, you're absolutely correct that you, or whoever does this, is definitely not doing it for the good of the seller, but rather satisfying their own greed. Some of you justify your actions by saying it's not fair, yet, somehow, you're able to justify YOUR subsequent actions as fair only b/c it gives you all a chance to get something you missed out on. Well, I gave you a whole list of things that aren't fair, and Paul touched on things that aren't fair too, and he's right: Two cans in a bucket - f**k it! Just about everything else you said was spot-on, Paul. Just to clarify, my mentioning of these 'unfair' items was not to indicate what I felt was unfair, but rather, to highlight that there are a lot of unfair scenarios that impacts who the ultimate winner will be. And while your justification for doing what you did here, was b/c, 'it gives everyone a fair chance to win the item', I found it peculiar that no one seemed to be too concerned with all these other 'unfair' advantages. Personally, I couldn't care less about them. Mike, I appreciate your tactful response as to why your crew is doing this, but let's not kid ourselves, if it wasn't my ID that won it, this would never have happened. And it especially wouldn't happen if it were any of your 'IN' crowd. As for your loose items getting pulled, you're reaching! You know, if this happened on just about any loose game, this would not be the reaction! And while we're on the topic of your concern about collectors not being able to complete their collection, they can't complete them when others are buying doubles, triples, quadruples, etc.... of these games either, so what are you guys doing about that to protect the interests of us unworthy <60/60 collectors? The part I do agree with about your response Mike, is how you deal with shill bidders, you report them to ebay, which is correct. Now, if you can point this out to your followers regarding BIN items, then, the need for posts such as these, will disappear! I realize you call the shots in this forum Mike (and rightly so), but you don't for ebay. Strangely, I actually agree with Slash's first paragraph. But I agree with Swedengame regarding Slash's second paragraph. Gameboy is right too! And in case anyone overlooked the key words, the seller thought HIS (as in the price HE presented to me) was fair. I did not tell him what I thought the game was worth nor did I give him an ultimatum regarding price. Now, for the sad news, and maybe next time, this will make you think twice before putting your own interests before someone elses. This seller has violated ebay policy, thanks to your efforts. I have already been in contact with the seller and informed him that I will pursue this to the fullest with ebay! (which should not surprise anyone on this forum if they know anything about me) I have already spoken with a rep from ebay and among the consequences of not abiding to the contract that a seller and buyer enter into when an auction has ended include: Account Suspension Loss of PowerSeller Status Referral to Law Enforcement So, sandyjune96, gamewatchcollector, Fox and whoever else contacted this seller posing as an angel in disguise. If this guy does end up losing his status (and according to what he told me, he does this for a living) I hope you can all sleep well at night knowing that you are directly responsible for this. Oh by the way you three, you were all so quick to run and tell the seller about all this, why are you absent from the group of repliers? Did you all get gold stars and happy faces from Mike? AC
|
|
|
Post by Br3nd4N on Feb 16, 2006 3:27:06 GMT 2
Well since I posted an amendment to my second paragrpah your probably in agreement on both accounts. I'm not sure on the ebay politics but pushing the matter with ebay may result with a slap on the wrist for you as well, as you asked the seller to go BIN, knowing full well the real price..... -B
|
|
|
Post by rob-catron on Feb 16, 2006 4:12:28 GMT 2
Paul, dude, there is way too much to comment on, but I'll tell you this, this $60 figure that has lit a fire under everyone's ass, is what he came up with, not me! >>>No, you came up with $40 It's funny how you've justified your actions by saying that it was ME that made the deal. No matter how you slice or dice it, let's go back to who started this whole thing? Was it me? True, I should have never been stupid enough to fall prey to this type of con game, and I whole heartedly assure everyone -- it will NOT happen again. This is one time that this easy going, calm headed eBayer with a huge international customer base, with collecting friends all over the world (ok, so they are Atari 8-bit friends) is not going to take getting screwed! Sincerely, Rob
|
|
|
Post by rob-catron on Feb 16, 2006 4:13:59 GMT 2
Well since I posted an amendment to my second paragrpah your probably in agreement on both accounts. I'm not sure on the ebay politics but pushing the matter with ebay may result with a slap on the wrist for you as well, as you asked the seller to go BIN, knowing full well the real price..... -B Exactly. I was on the phone with my Power Sellers group last night quite late over this situation. Sincerely, Rob
|
|
|
Post by theblackwizard on Feb 16, 2006 4:56:19 GMT 2
>>>No, you came up with $40 It's funny how you've justified your actions by saying that it was ME that made the deal. No matter how you slice or dice it, let's go back to who started this whole thing? Was it me? True, I should have never been stupid enough to fall prey to this type of con game, and I whole heartedly assure everyone -- it will NOT happen again. Sincerely, Rob Hello Rob. There's always 2 sides to a story. Thanks for sharing the other side. Also, I'm sure it will be a long time coming before you accept another outside offer. Hope it all goes well. TBW. P.S. You shouldn't double post :lipsrsealed:. Edit your previous post.
|
|
|
Post by swedengame on Feb 16, 2006 10:36:54 GMT 2
No, I allways offer my items before bidding ends, or I offer to the next runner up, or I ask the member what there after :-) -B OK Slash! That's a bit better EXCEPT for the first thing, "No, I allways offer my items before bidding ends". I don't think that any interference in an ongoing auction is fair or justified, what if the potential buyer goes for your item instead? If you want to contact members who didn't win an auction then that's OK. But only AFTER the ending of the auction and only to the ones who didn't win. And yes I have been offered items when I have placed bids on auctions, but do you think that I have replied or even considered buying from this person!? :straightface:
|
|
|
Post by jonwiththewind on Feb 16, 2006 11:00:18 GMT 2
EDIT: Oops, Should have read the other posts. $40 offer on the Mario PS - Aris??? You're obviously not worried about what you've done (and I'm not saying you should be) so how about putting the correspondence you had with the $60 PS Mario guy on the forum? It should make interesting reading! I agree that you haven't broken ebay rules, but I'm sure you can understand why people here are uneasy about your approach?
|
|