|
Post by andycole on Aug 19, 2004 11:35:29 GMT 2
You may know that I'm one of the people whio doesn't 100% beleive that the YM-901S deserves to be called an official G&W. I'll explain one of the reasons here, then pose a question: I started collecting in about 1998 and discovered ebay in early 1999. It wasn't until probably mid 2000 when the first YM-901S appeared (in Fredrik Kellen's collection) and several months after that, they started appearing on ebay. If they've been around since 1987, and possibly 11,000 people had one, why didn't they appear on ebay sooner? Why a 13 year gap? Don't you think there's a tiny, tiny possibility that the 'competition prize' story was completely made up by someone who's actually manufacturing these for a $1000 profit each time!? Does anyone personally know someone who won one in a nintendo competition? Discuss, Flame, whatever Andy.
|
|
|
Post by sAner on Aug 19, 2004 14:50:49 GMT 2
;D Haha! Nice one but impossible. Have you ever seen a YM901s upclose & personal? It's the most stunning g&w there is and producing only a few (let's say 500) to sell them for 600 Dollar each would never ever be rewarding. It's like counterfeit money. Guilders were almost never forged as you need to print hundreds of thousands of the same money bills to get even with the investmentcosts. Only after printing millions, you will become rich. NL was just too small to spend all those fake guilders. Now we have the euro, counterfeit money is a big problem as it IS possible to spread millions of fake euros into the world. More countries accept them as standard money, get it? Producing a fake g&w wouldn't be rewarding therefore. Besides you wouldn't be able to pull it off anyway. You would need superduper equipment. The 13 year gap is explained very easily: Most of the 11.790 units of the YM901s stayed in Japan. Then, in the mid 90's people started collecting g&w's. It just took a while (about 5 years) before the word in Japan was out that people in the west were also interested in g&w's ... then the YM901s came from the Japanese attics and spread worldwide. Just my view of course! Regards, sAner
|
|
|
Post by Br3nd4N on Aug 19, 2004 19:24:08 GMT 2
I dont think that the unit is a fake, as discussed in other threads it's more likely that other fake material would start to appear first, like flagman / egg boxes for example.
But I also think the production costs are probably not as high as we all would think they are, Nintendo is not stupid, and there certainly not going to produce 11,000 units for a comp if the cost of production is going to be to high. (understandably they would have the exquipment etc), but still the YM-901 is like no other game, and would require a huge change to the production line.
If you decide to collect the YM-901 or not I still think you have a complete collection 59 or 60/60 is complete. Almost all internet encyclopedias say that nintendo released 59. I think thats the key, released, If your going for the ones they commercially released.
I think you run a fine line in collecting the YM-901, because it's a special edition, should you then collect the G&W mini's etc because they are also special editions?, where do you stop?
Thats just my opinion but.
-B
|
|
|
Post by mpanayiotakis on Aug 19, 2004 19:46:06 GMT 2
Everything included in my FAQ about this game has been confirmed by various old collectors (older than you Andy) and has been confirmed by Nintendo employees. After all, this wasn't the only prize in the Famicom competitions. The problem with the time gap is Internet and international auction sites of course. Ebay was created in the late 90s. Japanese people can't speak english very well and they are very reluctant in making transactions with people outside Japan even now (even if they wanted to, they wouldn't be able to do it since they didn't have the means). People like Taki made the game known outside Japan and when prices escalated to what we see today.. boom! all people wanted to sell one.. Btw, who in their right mind would devote time and a lot of money to create such as this ? They would be better off replicating paintings in my view.. Michael
|
|
|
Post by devster on Aug 19, 2004 19:53:34 GMT 2
Erm... a few reasons really. I think as you have stated before Andy, way back when there weren't a lot of g&w on the bay full stop. So if only 11,700 were made then they would have been xtra hard to get hold off back then. Now there has been an explosion in g&w, so people now realise that the game in the loft or bottom drawer is worth a few bob. Hense you start to see them. I also think the reason we see a lot of YM901's, even though there were only 11,700 made is because there would have been more chance that the winner would keep the item. It was a prize for someone and I think they would treasure that more than a standard game, so I think that is why we see so many, because they got kept. Don't forget there are the other 3 prizes, (Us Golf, Japan Golf and the Stationary Kit with 3D Hot Rally) Would someone go to the lengths of creating these pieces aswell, just so they could sell a YM901's ? But my main reason which proves they exsist is due to the photo's below. This is a 20th Anniversary Special Edition Encyclopedia of the Famicom (Family Computer) which lists all games realeased / produced, either on cartridge or disk. It also includes accessories and hardware. You can see the photo's clearly show the special gold golf disks, the stationary kit (you got 3D Hot Rally with that prize) and also the famous Mr Disk with the White Presentation Box. So either they are real or the 20th Annisversary special set I have is fake, along with the other 2000 odd titles in the book. And there rests the case for the defence my lord ;D Devster www.devster.f2s.com/Fami 007.jpg[/img] www.devster.f2s.com/Fami 001.jpg[/img] www.devster.f2s.com/Fami 003.jpg[/img] www.devster.f2s.com/Fami 005.jpg[/img] www.devster.f2s.com/Fami 006.jpg[/img]
|
|
|
Post by josefkang on Aug 20, 2004 0:45:37 GMT 2
Hear, hear..
I agree with sAner - unless you are Nintendo, production costs are way WAY too high. Mike has a great point, until the arrival of the internet and ebay, there was no way to trade these items internationally. Further, the fact is that the kids that loved playing with these games in the early 80's have only recently become independently wealthy enough to start collecting them. Prices will continue to soar as we all become richer ;D !!!
Also, for me 59 or 60, the argument is moot. The YM-901S is just awesome! I already have a few but I can't resist on bidding for them when I see them on ebay!
|
|
|
Post by Br3nd4N on Aug 20, 2004 0:49:39 GMT 2
Prices will continue to soar as we all become richer ;D !!! I think the demand is going to be a big factor, the number of users in this forum steadly grows... I think it will come down to the amount of collectors and what they earn. -B
|
|
|
Post by Southbomb on Aug 20, 2004 1:54:12 GMT 2
Hey Andy, You have to remember that E-bay was not so widespread as it is now. It was no where near as popular many years ago, and those were the years the website was still growing. Also, not that many people knew their was a market to sell their used items or even wanted to bother with it. All of the contestants were probably kids anyway and all wanted to keep their games as a remembrance or just to play with. Also consider the kids didn't decide to move out of their parents home until a decade later. Parents don't just go and sell their kids toys (Unless they are mean). You have to wait until the kids mature and finally understand if they have something of value then why not sell it to the Game & Watch community! And, in the good old days Nintendo did give away prizes for contests all the time as a gimmick. Also, today you still see things like that going on. Everything has the words "Limited Edition" written on it. Well that is just my 2 cents. -Matt
|
|
|
Post by sAner on Aug 20, 2004 2:34:41 GMT 2
I think you run a fine line in collecting the YM-901, because it's a special edition, should you then collect the G&W mini's etc because they are also special editions?, where do you stop? Thats just my opinion but. -B In my opinion the modelno. is what makes the YM901s count. This game has it's own modelno and each unit has a serialnumber. If your aiming for a full collection, you should really have 6/60. But of course noone says you have to have a full colection. If 59/59 makes you happy, you should stick to that. ;D ... and yes; I was also already thinking like this before I got a YM901s from Paul! Check old threads if you don't believe me! sAner Ps-Way to go Dev! Exhibit A!
|
|
|
Post by andycole on Aug 20, 2004 4:55:43 GMT 2
There's some good points there. I didn't say it didn't exist, anyway. A couple of things to add/ask, though: Unless you have actual experience of the manufacturing process, I don't think you can guess how much it would cost to make the game. I would say the game would cost much less than the originals because the case is all plastic, all you need is a mould and a sticker for the front. Most of the other games had metal with paint, etc. Much more complicated. Also, I'm sure the innards, which are the expensive bit to make, are all YM-105. Devster, is that encyclopaedia an official Nintendo product? It could be a fanzine written by someone like us who 'assumes' it's official. Also, there is no picture of the YM-901S, only the stationery kit. I've never seen any confirmation from nintendo employees, perhaps you would like to point me to it, out of curiosity. A few good points made about kids growing up then selling on after they've moved out, etc. The point about ebay, though I don't agree with. I've been using ebay since early 1999 and there were plenty of Japanese sellers, but it was still nearly 2 years before one appeared there. Just to re-iterate, I'm not saying I think it's fake, but you have to look at things from my point of view. Most of you here are newer to G&W than me, and as far as you're concerned, there has always been 60 games. The first time you thought about collecting, you probably looked on someone's 'master list' and saw it there. But for me, it was always 59, and I wasn't alone, there was G&W life on the web before 2002, I knew probably 100 collectors worldwide and nobody ever mentioned the existence of a 60th game, then all of a sudden it was like 'look at this! there's this mystery 60th game that's been in hiding for 13 years!' So you can see why I might be a little sceptical. Andy.
|
|
|
Post by andycole on Aug 20, 2004 5:17:01 GMT 2
|
|
|
Post by devster on Aug 20, 2004 6:20:56 GMT 2
;D Yes Andy, I'm not known for being too sensible!!! You can take it another step forward, I mean the other prize's have not been seen very often, but now they are appearing. The golf disks are poping up all the time, the only reason for this is that people realise that they are collectable and people will pay for them. I see where your coming from Andy, but it dosen't add up for me. The books I have look official, they are about 250 pages each and have a write up on each game / gadget. They are made with very high quality covers and I do not think they are fanzines. Unfortunately, I do not speak Japenese, so I am unable to read the text. I can confirm that under the Stationary Kit the words start with 3D, the story is that in the competitions, the stationary kit came with 3D Hot Rally! As I said, for someone to make up the competition including the other prizes is a bit elaborate. I guess a theory could be that the competition prizes did exsist apart from the YM901 and someone decided to say that this was also given away!!!!!!!!! ;D If it has been made up they did a bloody good job. In addition, the other prizes have not turned up in the 13 years have they? Only now as people start to realise they are worth money. I bet there is a lot of talk in Japan about the prices being reached on ebay, then you have lots of people sourcing the games and boom!!! Take the Golf disks, Toyshot has a habbit of coming up with these? He knows he can make money on them and so he goes looking. If you put an ad out searching for one of these games in England or Japan, which ad would get the best response? One last point (thank god you say!!!) I think next to the White box and Mr Disk it does say Super Mario Bros? I need to find someone who can translate this for me. Laters, Devster
|
|
|
Post by mookiehk on Aug 20, 2004 6:37:34 GMT 2
Devster,
If you send me the japanese (in japanese) i may be able to try and translate for you.
Wilson
|
|
|
Post by sAner on Aug 20, 2004 6:48:42 GMT 2
;D I guess a theory could be that the competition prizes did exsist apart from the YM901 and someone decided to say that this was also given away!!!!!!!!! ;D Devster Yes ... The US never landed on the moon, Saddam was a swell guy and they just made him look bad, Greece didn't really win the European Championship and the world is probably flat after all, when you reach the end, you drop off it. ;D sAner
|
|
|
Post by mpanayiotakis on Aug 20, 2004 16:44:41 GMT 2
Unless you have actual experience of the manufacturing process, I don't think you can guess how much it would cost to make the game. I would say the game would cost much less than the originals because the case is all plastic, all you need is a mould and a sticker for the front. I don't think you've thought about this seriously. This isn't a valid argument and I don't want to explain why - it's too obvious. I just want to say that you're oversimplifying things. This sentence is on the brink of being offensive but I'll let it slip. Last time I checked Japan had a population of 125 million people. There's a great possiblity that these sellers didn't own one (how many were there anyway ? - even today only a handful remain active). Even if they did, there's also a great possibility that you missed the related auctions. You're only making assumptions based on what you've seen since you started visiting Ebay (only one site!) but you have no real clue on what was going on before that and don't forget that Ebay has become the monster it is today only recently (for example I discovered it 3 years ago although I've been using the Internet since 1991). Since this game was released in Japan only and only a few knew about this, it's logical to assume that it would take some time before it became known to the rest of the world. I have to say this: I was one of the guys who insisted on keeping only 59 games in my collection while all other collectors insisted that a complete collection consists of 60 games. But my thinking was different. I never doubted that it's a genuine Nintendo item. I just thought that since it was never sold in shops it's something totally different from the other games and it should be treated in a unique kind of way. I got one for a very nice price because I was intrigued by all the comments made from others and I haven't regretted it. If you think that you have valid reasons to not own one, it's your choice - noone can ever tell you what you should have and what you shouldn't. But since we count all different model numbers the number is 60. Michael
|
|