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Post by rensmits on Oct 27, 2009 15:08:36 GMT 2
Isn't it amazing, that when you think that everything has been discussed, something new pops-up? It shows again that the game and watch games are legendary games. I bet that these games weren't made by human hands Na-nu Na-nu, René
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Post by Aris on Oct 27, 2009 15:21:29 GMT 2
Isn't it amazing, that when you think that everything has been discussed, something new pops-up? It shows again that the game and watch games are legendary games. I bet that these games weren't made by human hands Na-nu Na-nu, René Hey RS, That never ceases to amaze me! As a matter of fact, a game ended recently that also has the potential for a "new" discussion as to what the marking/stamp on it is. At first, I thought it might have been a sticker, but, the more I looked at it, the more it looked like a logo or stamp. I'll bring it up a bit later, unless someone else beats me to it! I don't think it will be a long discussion, but, I'm pretty sure it's the first we've seen, so, there may be some questions about it, and hopefully, someone recognizes the logo/symbol. A member of this forum did win it though. So, I'll wait until they receive it and confirm that it is indeed stamped on. Legendary? That has a cool ring to it: "Nintendo's legendary Game & Watch games" LOL! Well, if they weren't made by human hands, my guess would be that they were produced on the planet Ork, and brought over by Robin Williams in a giant Egg, and that's also probably why Egg is one of the rarest games too! ;D AC out
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Post by Aris on Oct 27, 2009 18:40:26 GMT 2
Aris, you're forgetting a very easy way of getting all the serials we need: Pat's database. I have a copy of his serials database on my computer in spreadsheet form, although it is probably about a year old, but I can give you 130 Spitball Sparky serials and 57 Crab Grab serials if you like! If you don't need them all, the range is as follows: SS: S1003307 - S1394647 CG: S1118538 - S1385005 Plus a strange Crab Grab serial of 03109653 which I assume is a transplanted or fake sticker. I'm very happy to be discussing this subject again as it intrigues me, although I fear we are going to just go around in circles like we usually do. Then again, with your terrier-like tenacity and powers of investigation, perhaps we'll get a little further than usual! From what I've seen of the numbers in the database, of all games, not just these 2, there are large gaps and crossovers between games so serial numbers don't necessarily tie in exactly with production numbers. I would say that the numbers produced are going to be much lower than the 10,000 suggested, more like the current 1557 gap between the highest and lowest known number. Just my 2p's worth. edit: Oh, and you don't need to find an auction with a peeling supercolour game to find out that they were white underneath - just look inside the battery compartment! another edit: Spitball S1385005 and S1394967are both silver according to the database, so that limits the white range to less than 9962 if you believe that they were produced in sequential numbers, and the current evidence is a range of 1557. Andy Okay, brace yourself, this is a complicated post!!!
AC, D'oh!!! How could I be so stupid?!!! Of course, Patrick's database would be the perfect place to get a whole whack of SS and CG serials!!! I've never used that part of his search before, so, I'll check it out. Okay, just looked at it, and it seems, you need to punch a serial number in, and it will bring up the game's auction details. I can't seem to see a way to get an entire list of a particular game's serial numbers though, so, yes, I would appreciate it if you can send me the spread sheet you have. You can send it to arisc@rogers.com . There is a note on his site that says since Autumn 2008, no more serials have been added to the database, so, you probably have as close to a current list of serials that exists! Yeah, that one CG serial is indeed an odd one.... It can't be authentic since it would need to at least start with an "S", so, I'd say it's definitely not the original serial either! You're lucky Andy, you're one of, what? A half dozen people to own a white SS! So, I'm not surprised this intrigues you. It will be very difficult to figure this one out for sure, but, just by getting four out of six serials of known white SS games, we've already noticed a commonality! Pretty exciting, given that we've been aware that a couple of these white SS games have been kicking around for several years! It's the white CG game whose existence we only just learned about around mid-2008! (Paul won his boxed white CG back on June 5th 2008) How long have you had yours Andy? Mike got his back on November 23rd 2006. And prior to that, I remember hearing that you and Taki had the only known ones to exist. (does anyone remember something about Taki having more than one of these?) So, who knows how long Taki had his before it ended up in Mike's hands? Needless to say, we've known that two were in existence for at least three years, and hardly anyone raised an eyebrow about their production. Now that a few more have been spotted, along with that auction of a partially-white SS, all sorts of eyebrows are being raised! Funny how we humans work eh? ;D Okay, back to your observations on serial numbers and production numbers! This is one of my biggest concerns Andy! I'm basing this all on what I perceive to be logicial, and I'm also assuming a lot of things.... I mean, it's really difficult to know for sure about things like "where serial numbers started?" "where did they end?" "were they produced in a straight run of 250000 games?" "Were certain ranges of numbers skipped in the serial number process?" etc.... According to Mike's FAQ, approx. 250,000 of SS and 250,000 of CG games were produced. How did we find this out? Are we certain of this? The lowest serial we currently have for a SS game is S1003307 and the highest is S1394647. Based on these numbers alone there's a gap of 391340. 1394647 1003307=391340 CG game serials also fall in this range, with the lowest serial we have record of being S1118538 and the highest is S1385005. The gap here is 266467 1385005 1118538=266467 I guess a better way to explain what I'm getting at is like this: Both CG and SS appear to share the same range of serial numbers (i.e. they both start with the letter "S" [for Supercolour] and then a 7-digit number, which so far, always seems to start with a "1". I'm omitting the odd serial number that Andy pointed out as being in the database, and suspected it as being transplanted or a fake sticker, b/c it is just that! It would, at least, have to start with an "S" to be a genuine Supercolour game's serial) So, if approx. 250000 of each were produced, then, approx. 500000 in total were produced. Since they both appear to share the same serial number range, then, the gap between the lowest and highest serial should be around 500000. Here's the problem: The lowest serial we have for either SS or CG is S1003307 and the highest we have is S1394647. So, for simplicity sake, let's make these nice round numbers, so, let's assume production for these games started at S1000000 (this is not far-fetched since it's only 3307 off from our lowest known serial) and production ended at S1400000 (which again, is not far-fetched because it's only 5353 off from our highest known serial). That leaves a gap of 400000, which would suggest that only 400000 games were made. Now, having said that, S1000000 and S1400000 may not have been the starting and ending serials for production of SS & CG games. Maybe they started earlier, or maybe they ended later. I would say they ended later. Here's why: Based on the highest serial we have, It's almost certain production of serials went to at least S1400000. Now, if this was the highest serial number for the Supercolour games, and 500000 were produced, then, that would mean the first serial number would be S0900000 (S1400000 minus 500000 [number of units produced] = S0900000). I think S0900000 is a bit of an unusual starting point. I think a starting point of S1000000 (or S1000001) and an ending point of S1499999 (or S1500000) is more likely. This is all based on on the estimated production numbers from Mike's FAQ. I don't know how accurate these are, or how Mike obtained the figures, but, if anyone has read the FAQ, they will know that it is a very detailed, comprehensive FAQ, and I would think Mike and whoever else worked on putting it together were very diligent in their research, so, I have no reason to believe the data isn't accurate. But, I am wondering how you found out the numbers??? So if 500000 were produced, then, I'm saying they had to start somewhere between "S0900000 - S1000000" and they must have ended somewhere around "S1400000 - S1500000" I'm guessing the range is S1000000 to S1499999. Re Edit #1: Maybe they were just lazy and didn't coat the battery compartment..... Re Edit #2: Ah! Very interesting!! That's fantastic information!!! So, we know, if they were produced in sequence, that they started somewhere between S1385006 and S1386042 (maybe they started at S1386000?) and ended somewhere between S1387600 and S1394967 Based on this new information I think it would be safe to say the earliest possible white Supercolour game serial would be S1385006. (I'm basing this on the highest serial number we have, of a non-white Supercolour game, that is lower than the lowest serial number we have, of a known white Supercolour game) Did that make sense? Read it again, but slowly, it should make sense! And the highest possible white Supercolour game serial would be S1394966 (again, I'm basing this on the lowest serial number we have, of a non-white Supercolour game, that is higher than the highest serial number we have, of a known white Supercolour game) So, if everything I've written above is correct, the absolute maximum range is S1385006 - S1394966 which would mean a maximum production amount of 9960 white Supercolour games. This number should significantly decrease as we find serials that are closer to, yet still lower than, S1386042 (our current lowest serial for a white Supercolour game) as well as serials that are closer to, yet higher than S1387599 (our current highest serial for a white Supercolour game). My guess right now will be that they started at 1386000 and ended at 1387999, which would mean 2000 were produced, 1000 of each! Now, if only I can get that fat bastard Paul to get back to me!!!! We'll at least get one more white Supercolour serial from him, and hopefully, it falls in line with our logic so far. Okay, I've blabbed long enough on this one, time to end this rather lengthy post. Any feedback would be appreciated, I mean, it's not like what I've typed here is "God's word" so, I'm sure I may have overlooked something (besides the possibility the games weren't produced in a straight run batch. Though, based on the serials we have, everything points to a straight run production of 500000 serials!) AC PS BTW Andy, how did you get the database info. you have? Were you able to extract it from Patrick's site, or did you have to request it from him?
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Post by runepune on Oct 27, 2009 19:23:15 GMT 2
Personally I think there were "only" made 400 000 of these, 200 000 of each. Why? Simply because we haven't seen a serial lower than S1000000 or higher than S1400000. I find it very hard to believe that not one single game lower or higher than these have popped up on Ebay. I mean if they started at S0900000 or ended at S1500000 then there's a range of 200 000 games and no records of any serials in this range? I find that very hard to believe.
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Post by Aris on Oct 27, 2009 19:48:00 GMT 2
Good point Runepune! It's very valid based on our findings, and can very well be the case!! We've gotten kinda close to these "start and stop" serials, but you're right, we haven't seen anything outside of them. Thanks for pointing that out! Collectors, any more serials on your SS and CG games??? Please, don't be shy! If you're still a "post-virgin", now's a good time as any to get your very first post in, all you have to do is provide a serial number and type of Supercolour game the serial number belongs to. I guess we'll have to wait on Mike's response to find out a little more info. about the estimated production numbers. I do see that there's a tilde (~) before the figure that represents production numbers, and while a tilde can mean all sorts of things, in this case, it means approximately. So, perhaps 250000 (each) was the targeted amount of SS & CG games to be produced, and ended up producing fewer..... AC
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Post by andycole on Oct 28, 2009 14:46:36 GMT 2
Phew! Where do I start?! Okay, just looked at it, and it seems, you need to punch a serial number in, and it will bring up the game's auction details. I can't seem to see a way to get an entire list of a particular game's serial numbers though, so, yes, I would appreciate it if you can send me the spread sheet you have. You can send it to arisc@rogers.com . There is a note on his site that says since Autumn 2008, no more serials have been added to the database, so, you probably have as close to a current list of serials that exists! I'm not sure if that message about updates since 2008 is correct or not. He is still updating the database, but perhaps he just isn't adding serial numbers. If that's the case then it's a shame. How long have you had yours Andy? Mike got his back on November 23rd 2006. And prior to that, I remember hearing that you and Taki had the only known ones to exist. (does anyone remember something about Taki having more than one of these?) So, who knows how long Taki had his before it ended up in Mike's hands? Needless to say, we've known that two were in existence for at least three years, and hardly anyone raised an eyebrow about their production. Now that a few more have been spotted, along with that auction of a partially-white SS, all sorts of eyebrows are being raised! Funny how we humans work eh? ;D I've had mine since 24th Jan 2000, I know because I have my own database! As soon as I got it, I asked 3 people about it - The person I got it from, who also had another but obviously didn't value them enough as I traded a very low value non-G&W for it Taki, who knew of it's existence and said that he also had one, and Fredrik Kellen who, at the time, was one of the most experienced and knowledgeable collectors I knew, and he was intrigued and wanted to buy it off me Since then I remember Taki saying he had more than one, I think it was discussed on this forum. There have in fact been numerous discussions about it, so it's not like we've been ignoring it all this time, it's just that there's so little information. Serials are about all we've got. Okay, back to your observations on serial numbers and production numbers! This is one of my biggest concerns Andy! I'm basing this all on what I perceive to be logicial, and I'm also assuming a lot of things.... I mean, it's really difficult to know for sure about things like "where serial numbers started?" "where did they end?" "where they produced in a straight run of 250000 games?" "Were certain ranges of numbers skipped in the serial number process?" etc.... According to Mike's FAQ, approx. 250,000 of SS and 250,000 of CG games were produced. How did we find this out? Are we certain of this? We have to make some assumptions of course, or else we'll get nowhere. It's important to note, first of all, that both supercolour games shared the same range of numbers, so the current (that we know of) range of 400,000 serials is for both games IN TOTAL. Secondly, in my opinion, those production figures quoted in Mike's article are to be taken as a guide only, and the actual figures are probably far removed from them. The figures, I believe, quote "UP TO 250,000" of each. The same is said of Flagman, and the same could be said of the yellow special, but we are lucky enough to know the true production number for that. The production figures, if I recall correctly, came from a nintendo employee, but we don't know more than that, it was such a long time ago now and nobody can remember the actual time or place where this information became public. The lowest serial we currently have for a SS game is S1003307 and the highest is S1394647. Based on these numbers alone there's a gap of 391340. 1394647 1003307=391340 CG game serials also fall in this range, with the lowest serial we have record of being S1118538 and the highest is S1385005. The gap here is 266467 1385005 1118538=266467 391340 is the current maximum amount OF BOTH GAMES, as I said eariler. But because we don't know exactly how serial numbers were used, its hard to determine whether these will be the same thing as produced games. I've seen extremely large gaps in the database, which can't be explained other than we just haven't seen them surface. Here's the problem: The lowest serial we have for either SS or CG is S1003307 and the highest we have is S1394647. So, for simplicity sake, let's make these nice round numbers, so, let's assume production for these games started at S1000000 (this is not far-fetched since it's only 3307 off from our lowest known serial) and production ended at S1400000 (which again, is not far-fetched because it's only 5353 off from our highest known serial). That leaves a gap of 400000, which would suggest that only 400000 games were made. Now, having said that, S1000000 and S1400000 may not have been the starting and ending serials for production of SS & CG games. Maybe they started earlier, or maybe they ended later. I would say they ended later. Here's why: Based on the highest serial we have, It's almost certain production of serials went to at least S1400000. Now, if this was the highest serial number for the Supercolour games, and 500000 were produced, then, that would mean the first serial number would be S0900000 (S1400000 minus 500000 [number of units produced] = S0900000). I think S0900000 is a bit of an unusual starting point. I think a starting point of S1000000 (or S1000001) and an ending point of S1499999 (or S1499999) is more likely. I think it's fair to assume that S1000000 was the first serial. For all we know, the last number ever used was S1394647 but it is likely that a fairly round number were produced. I don't know how big a production line it would have been, but remember this series was aimed as a luxury item for adult players, so it's feasible that they could have done runs as low as 1000. It's perfectly acceptable to believe that the last number used was 1395000. Re Edit #1: Maybe they were just lazy and didn't coat the battery compartment..... What I was getting at was that this debate about how the white ones exist has always been about, not just because we've seen one with paint peeled off. The supercolors have always been white underneath and we all knew it already. Re Edit #2: Ah! Very interesting!! That's fantastic information!!! So, we know, if they were produced in sequence, that they started somewhere between S1385006 and S1386042 (maybe they started at S1386000?) and ended somewhere between S1387600 and S1394967 Based on this new information I think it would be safe to say the earliest possible white Supercolour game serial would be S1385006. (I'm basing this on the highest serial number we have, of a non-white Supercolour game, that is lower than the lowest serial number we have, of a known white Supercolour game) Did that make sense? Read it again, but slowly, it should make sense! And the highest possible white Supercolour game serial would be S1394966 (again, I'm basing this on the lowest serial number we have, of a non-white Supercolour game, that is higher than the highest serial number we have, of a known white Supercolour game) So, if everything I've written above is correct, the absolute maximum range is S1385006 - S1394966 which would mean a maximum production amount of 9960 white Supercolour games. This number should significantly decrease as we find serials that are closer to, yet still lower than, S1386042 (our current lowest serial for a white Supercolour game) as well as serials that are closer to, yet higher than S1387599 (our current highest serial for a white Supercolour game). Yes, I already said that. I think I mentioned 9962 as the current 'window'. But because we don't know the circumstances of production of either the silver or white versions we don't know how many games ever existed within that 9962 window. If we knew what the minimum run was at the factory we'd be laughing! If it was 10,000 then we could virtually guarantee that there were 10,000 white games because the serial window is very close to that number. If the runs were as low as 1000, then it's possible that they only did a single run of each and only 1000 existed of each, that would also fit in nicely with the currently known white serials My guess right now will be that they started at 1386000 and ended at 1387999, which would mean 2000 were produced, 1000 of each! Now, if only I can get that fat bastard Paul to get back to me!!!! We'll at least get one more white Supercolour serial from him, and hopefully, it falls in line with our logic so far. AC PS BTW Andy, how did you get the database info. you have? Were you able to extract it from Patrick's site, or did you have to request it from him? I think your assumption of 1000 each is not far out. We really need to keep an eye out for serial numbers between 1387999 and 1394966 so that we can reduce the size of the window. I requested the database from Patrick a while back while we were discussing production figures. If I recall the numbers weren't useful for the purpose because so many games shared the same serial range. At least for this particular investigation we have only 2 games to consider. Now I now the date of Paul's Crab Grab, I can look for it in the database. Or have you done that already? Andy
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Post by Gawaleus on Oct 28, 2009 17:08:05 GMT 2
There is a note on his site that says since Autumn 2008, no more serials have been added to the database I'm not sure if that message about updates since 2008 is correct or not. He is still updating the database, but perhaps he just isn't adding serial numbers. If that's the case then it's a shame. Well, unfortunately I did not add any serials to the database for about a year now. And yes, it's a shame... The reason is, keeping track of all the G&W auctions and adding their data to the database is a lot of work already. "Collecting" the serials is quite a bit of additional work. There are about 50 G&W auctions ending every day (on average). Getting the serials from those auctions, means to review every closed auction every single day. In some auctions the serial is visible on a picture, on other auctions it’s mentioned in the description. About 30% of all auctions do contain the serial number. Talking in minutes, it’s at least half an hour of work every day. Not so much you might think, but just imagine if I can’t find the time for three or four days or more, then I have up to two hours and more already. I know, it would be great to continue adding the serials into the database, because it could help us all to find out more about our great hobby Game&Watch. I’m thinking of restarting collecting the serials. Anyway, I did send an email to Aris with all serials I have about Spitball Sparky and Crab Grab. I hope it will shed some light... Patrick
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Post by mpanayiotakis on Oct 29, 2009 2:17:23 GMT 2
Wow Aris, you keep raising the bar on the size of biggest post in this forum!! ;D
Now about the questions you had.. Production numbers come straight from Nintendo, they have been published in various magazines (including retrogamer and other japanese magazines some time in the past), books and sites over the years. The quoted numbers are approximate numbers, noone really knows how many of each game were produced (most of the times it wasn't a round number after all) and more importantly how many of them were sold which is the number we should be most interested in.
Spitball sparky and Crab grab indeed share a serial range but I'm not sure their production line ended at a round number. Since the games were produced in batches of 10s of games, the highest serial could be something like 1387620 or 1387619 or something. S1000000 should be the starting point though, it makes sense since the S starting serial numbers were used only for the supercolor games.
I know of another collector that used to own a white spitball sparky, ramrodius. I've seen him selling a couple of games lately in Ebay but I'm not sure if he has sold this game yet. It's worth asking him though if someone know his email address or something. I can't remember the url to his web site..
Btw, I don't think Nintendo created a separate production line for the white games. It must have replaced the one producing the silver coated ones so I'm not sure any silver games were released after the first release of the white games..
Michael
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Post by andycole on Oct 29, 2009 13:21:49 GMT 2
Production numbers come straight from Nintendo, they have been published in various magazines (including retrogamer and other japanese magazines some time in the past), books and sites over the years. The quoted numbers are approximate numbers, noone really knows how many of each game were produced (most of the times it wasn't a round number after all) and more importantly how many of them were sold which is the number we should be most interested in. I know of another collector that used to own a white spitball sparky, ramrodius. I've seen him selling a couple of games lately in Ebay but I'm not sure if he has sold this game yet. It's worth asking him though if someone know his email address or something. I can't remember the url to his web site.. Btw, I don't think Nintendo created a separate production line for the white games. It must have replaced the one producing the silver coated ones so I'm not sure any silver games were released after the first release of the white games.. Michael Just because these figures have been printed all over the place, it doesn't mean that they are 100% accurate. Every researcher for a magazine or internet article gets their info from the same place - they google 'game and watch production figures' or something similar, and get loads and loads of hits with sites that list the very same figures. The sites all list the figures because that single source is all we have ever had. Now I'm not saying that they are wrong, I'm just saying that they shouldn't be treated as accurate, they are a guide. The fact that the numbers are extremely round should tell you this. The problem we have always had is that Nintendo just don't give out any new information. So this 10+year old source is all we've got to go on. The last time I spoke to Ramrodius about the white game, he still had it. That was at least a year ago, though. I may even still have the PM. I also don't think that there was a separate production line, there would have been 2 lines actually, one for each game, but a single 'silver paint' machine which cases for both games would have gone through. Because we don't know why or how these came about, we can't be absolutely sure that the white ones were the last ever games, but the serial numbers would suggest that they weren't. Making a very big assumption that games were numbered in the order that they were produced, then the 'white' period was obviously very short, perhaps a single day. Whether the production run of these was indeed 10000 or 2000, it's quite feasible that these were all produced on the same day. Based on this assumption, I would say that the most likely explanation is a malfunction with the paint spray machine, or someone forgot to put the cases on the right conveyorbelt. (Images of Mario Bros foreman telling Mario off!) In either case, someone must have noticed it, but it looks like they decided to let them through. It begs the question why didn't they just put them through the paint again? The cases are obviously sprayed before being assembled with their 'innards' so it would have been noticed as soon as they got to the assembly part of the production line. It must have been at that point that it was discussed and they decided to let this small number go through as a 'special'. The second most likely explanation is that the single run on that day, without paint, was intentional. But unless we find someone who worked there at the time and who was involved (a one in a billion chance!) then we'll never know! edit: Excellent!I just checked my collection thread as I remember a discussion on there years ago and I was able back then to get the serial number of a loose white spitball I saw on ebay, which was S1389220. this was won by a UK buyer who I knew at the time. So that's one more serial for the pot! So that's just increased the 'white window' from 1557 games to 3178 games! Andy
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Post by mpanayiotakis on Oct 29, 2009 21:07:59 GMT 2
Andy, imho, if such a mistake took place then I'm sure they would immediately stop production - I don't think they would let 3,000 of them produced!! And I don't think they would delay the production just to discuss whether they should release the games or not.. They could of course release the few with the mistake but I'm sure that they would have marked the box with this information or something.. No, I think these releases must have been a conscious decision. I have always thought that this was some kind of special release..
Why do you say that the white ones can't be the last supercolor games produced?
Michael
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Post by Aris on Oct 29, 2009 22:47:26 GMT 2
Okay some new developments with the my research and serial numbers database findings..... But, before I get into that, I was re-reading this thread, and just wanted to clarify something that Andy mentioned in an earlier post that I haven't addressed yet: Andy stated "the Supercolours have always been white underneath and we all knew that already." I don't agree with this. As a matter of fact, I think very few people, if any at all, knew they were white underneath! Since it seems that it was obvious to you, you may have been the only one that was aware of this Andy.... Mind you, being one of the few owners of such a rare item, maybe by having the opportunity look at one at will, you were able to tell that it was a simple matter of the game lacking its silver coating or something, but, how many people were in your position to actually look at one? Not many. Even Mike's original post that started this thread says: "It seems that underneath the metal cover the Supercolour games are white....." That doesn't sound like someone who "already knew the Supecolours were white underneath already". And that's from someone who already owns one, and at one point, actually owned two!!! Okay, back to my findings!!! I finally got a hold of Paul, but, I had already found out the serial on his white CG game, so, really, I didn't have to torture myself by engaging in an unnecessary conversation with him. But I did anyway! ;D He confirmed his white SS serial number, but was not able to locate his white CG game. Nonetheless, I did find out the serial, and it's...... is everyone ready? Runepune, are you paying attention? S1400380!!!It's the only case we know of where a serial has gone beyond the S1400000 mark! Also, Andy made reference to a serial number that was within Patrick's database, but, didn't follow the pattern of serial numbers for SS & CG games because it didn't start with an "S". Well, I found pics of the game, it was a game sold by good ol Chizuru!!! Here are the pics of it: Even if I didn't tell you it was from Chizuru, I'm sure a lot of us would have recognized her signature long-haired white shag carpet. LOL! ;D I still stand by my opinion that the serial is NOT genuine, and if anyone knows Jani (moviecatman) they can check with him, b/c he's the one who won it! Now, I've completed the serial database, and it's scary on how few serials we have compared to how many games were produced. I mean really, it's like a drop in a bucket! I was really hoping for more serials from our fellow collectors, but unfortunately, only a few of you have provided me with your serials. Not sure why.... it's not that difficult, and I'm spending a lot of time on this, so, if you own an SS or CG game, please provide me with your serial numbers, and let me know if it's a regular, white or NOA version of the game. If you don't want to post your serials in this forum please PM me, and I can keep your serials "anonymous" if that is what might be preventing you from providing your serials. I will eventually start asking people, that I know own SS and/or CG games for their serials, if I don't get them from these individuals first. Thanks in advance. The other thing that I noticed, especially on the CG side so far (I haven't finished cross-referencing the SS serials to pics of the auctions on Patrick's website database) is that the three NOA CG games that I have identified on my spreadsheet, are all fairly close together! They are: S1349600 S1365982 S1366635 There are several serials on the spreadsheet between the 1349600 and 1366635 serials, but only one of them is boxed. The serial of that one is S1356956 and it's in a regular (non-NOA) box. So, what does this mean? Not a whole lot right now, but, if we get more serials, it could mean something to us. The thing we have to keep in mind, is that a lot of games get switched so that the rare box (or the nicer box within one's collection) has the nicer-conditioned game in it. This is a common practice among collectors, so, while it's way too early to tell if NOA games were all produced in a straight run batch, and if that batch was around the aforementioned 3 NOA CG serial numbers, the discovery of this one CG game that kinda falls in this possible NOA range of serial numbers, could very well have been in an NOA box originally, and was swapped out b/c there was a better-conditioned one to replace it with! So, before I close out this post, our new range of Supercolour games serials is now: S1003307 (SS) to S1400380 This gives us a new, pretty much concrete number of units actually produced, of 397073. Now, if we go back to the assumption that the very first Supercolour game produced had serial number S1000000, then, the number of units actually produced, with S1400380 being the last one made, (which, right now, is the last one produced as far as we would know) is 400380! The last bit of info. I want to pass on has to do with how the serial numbers were produced for each game. i.e. did they make 500 SS games, assign 500 consecutive serial numbers to those games, then make 500 CG games, then assign the next 500 consecutive serial numbers to those games, etc.... or did they do this every 100 games? Every 10 games?? or did they alternate each serial produced between each game (every 1 game) Well, I found a SS game with serial # S1144080 and a CG game with serial S1144087, it looks like they alternated serials less than every 10 games..... Oh, almost forgot, as soon as Andrew Wee visits this forum again, he can give us at least 10 SS serials since he won that shipper full off of Paul! I was thinking about that shipper full and wondered if Paul checked each and every box? Could you imagine if one of those 10 within the shipper was a white SS!!! AC
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Post by runepune on Oct 30, 2009 0:26:17 GMT 2
Amazing findings Aris, and yes, I always pay attention when you post. Well done on finding a serial above the 1400000 mark. But, it's only slight past it, and all it proves is that they probably didn't produce an even number of these games. What I find more surprising is the 2 different games in the same 10-range. I believed that they sent these out in 10 and 10 in shipping boxes with consecutive serial numbers. Do you have pictures of these 2 games? And if you do, are they of such quality that you can actually see the model number on the back? There is a possibilty that someone has swapped the back on one of them with one from another game.
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Post by andycole on Oct 30, 2009 15:14:48 GMT 2
Jeez, I really think that you DO have OCD or something! The amount of effort you are putting into this gives me a headache! Just 2 things I want to reply about, and I can't believe that I'm saying this: Andy stated "the Supercolours have always been white underneath and we all knew that already." I don't agree with this. As a matter of fact, I think very few people, if any at all, knew they were white underneath! Since it seems that it was obvious to you, you may have been the only one that was aware of this Andy.... Mind you, being one of the few owners of such a rare item, maybe by having the opportunity look at one at will, you were able to tell that it was a simple matter of the game lacking its silver coating or something, but, how many people were in your position to actually look at one? Not many. I decided to tone down my original response as I don't want to start a flame war Go get your standard silver spitball sparky. Take off the battery cover. Turn it over. What colour is it underneath? What about inside the battery compartment? and: Why do you say that the white ones can't be the last supercolor games produced? Michael Because we have seen higher serial numbers which are silver games. Well, until Aris posted the 1400000 number, that was. Anyway, the point is that until today, the highest number we knew of was a silver cased game, not a white one. As it stands now, the serial range begins silver and ends white but now there are silvers mixed amongst the whites! Now we have possible evidence that the serial numbers appear to be extremely mixed, it really means we can't trust them to prove anything for us! Andy Last edit for today Discussions about the white spitballs go back as far as 2003 here, and the fact that the silver ones are white underneath goes back almost as far. You may want to read these threads: White Spitball Sparky DiscoveriesWhite Spitball SparkyVery nice and rare itemsMy collection threadI don't think there's anything much useful as far as serial numbers are concerned, but we did discuss the fact that the silvers are white underneath, and people, naturally, originally thought that the whites were standard games with paint removed. Oh, by the way, I contacted both Ramrodius and the seller of my game and they both still have their games but neither could tell me the serial number just yet. Ramrodius did say that his game is for sale (again) though. He was saying that 5 years ago! Anyway, if anyone is interested, they should contact him. Andy
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Post by rensmits on Oct 30, 2009 17:35:01 GMT 2
I don't think it is a special edition. What's so special about a white game instead of a silver game? If they wanted to make it special it would have been a gold game or something like that. Also, if you look at other special editions, those editions had a brand name on them like Pokka or Candia etc.
I think that nintendo had a productionline with hiccups. Every now and then the paintmachine just stopped. This is what happened: - Paintmachine worked --> silver games - Paintmachine stopped --> white games - Production stopped, paintmachine fixed --> silver games again - Paintmachine crashed again --> white games it is. etc.
I think that's what happened and that's where the evidence is bringing us. The only question is: Why didn't they put the white games back in front of the line? The answer is probably that they only discovered the problem at the end of the line, when a lot of games were already put together.
If this is what happened then I wouldn't be surprised that if we had more serial numbers, you would see a lot of white games with following serialnumbers, then a bunch of silver games with following serialnumbers, a small number of whites (because they were probably checking if everything went ok), a number of silvers, a very small ammount of whites and then silver games again. Hopefully Andrew has got a shipper with spitballs that were made when this event occured.
René
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Post by andycole on Oct 30, 2009 18:08:24 GMT 2
OK, I've got a potential spanner to throw in the works, how do you like this one? Paul's White Grab Grab could be a fake! There are 2 or 3 things that make me say that. 1. It's a higher serial number than we've seen. This could be completely innocent but it could also have been faked deliberately high so that it didn't clash with any existing game and declare itself as a fake. 2. It was the first white crab grab we ever saw (I think) and as such would have been an extremely desirable item at the time 3. Paul bought it. I am not aware of the scenario of the purchase, was it an ebay auction? Even if it was, it's possible that the seller knew of the white version and knew that a white crab grab would fetch a lot. But if it was a private sale, then that would be even more suspicious. Any seller who knew Paul's reputation would know that he would buy the game for a fair amount, no questions asked. It's a wild theory, I know. As I said earlier, we've previously discussed the white underneath the silver games and Mike and I have both said that the white versions could not be 'stripped' silver ones, but I really wonder how easy or difficult it would be to make one. I might just buy a cheap silver one and strip it to see what happens I think I'm with Rene that it was a mistake rather than a special. Good point about being something other than white. We know that Nintendo liked making gold items, like the gold diskette or the gold NES Zelda cartridge. Why didn't they make a gold Supercolor if they were going to do a special. I'd really like to prove this was a special, and I can see that Mike does as well, but currently no evidence points in that direction. Andy
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