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Post by sAner on Sept 9, 2004 12:22:18 GMT 2
It's easlily the most worrying thing for a collector of g&w's: the lifespan of the LCD. In every interview I do on my website, I always include the question: "do you think g&w will die soon as some of them already reached the age of 25?". Noone really knows for sure, many guess and most of you think that the g&w's you own today will all de dead some day. I found an interesting article about LCD televisions recently and it gave me some hope: "Flat-panel LCD screen displays have a lifespan approaching 60,000 hours. The lifespan of an LCD display is generally longer than that of similar-sized plasma displays. Some manufacturers even claim that their LCDs can last upwards of 80,000 hours when used continuously under controlled conditions (e.g., in a room with "standard" lighting conditions and 77° temperatures throughout). Just how realistic such claims are is debatable. After all, whose living room has no windows and remains at a perfectly comfortable 77 degrees year-round?" If we can apply this to our 25 year old g&w lcd's and when you hardly play your games and when you store them out of the sunlight and at a constant temperature of 77 degrees fahrenheit (don't you go storing them at 77 degrees celsius! ), the lifespan should be virtually neverending. What do you think? sAner Ps-77 degrees fahrenheit is 25 degrees celsius.
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Post by Br3nd4N on Sept 9, 2004 13:38:46 GMT 2
Probably the biggest fator in how long Liquid Crystals last is how long they say in a "quality" Liquid form. It's while in this state they can react or allign themselves causing the polarizing effect, or causing light to be absorbed when a current is passed through them.
So what it comes down to is how well the two layers of glass are sealed. If you have ever looked at an LCD from a game up close you will see it's actually 2 layers of glass with the LC inside it. Some other compound is also used to keep the LC into defined areas or "sprites".
If these 2 layers of glass come apart or the area holding the LC into a defined area breaks then a few things normally happen
1. Crystal Bleeding occurs (common).
2. Sprites become blotchy or "fadded".
I believe the first one occurs when the area of defined LC is broken, and the second when the outside seal of the 2 peices of glass are broken. It's this outside seal issue that causes the LC to dry out, due to evaperation. If the seal is designed to last, then no problems should occur.
I've seen many bleeds, but hardly any fades or blotchy LCD's, and these are most likly caused by "faulty" outside seals in the manafacture stage.
If the standard Bell curve can be applied (and I see no reason why not) then I suspect screen will still continue to last quite some time, as we are certainly no where near any quantity dying from this problem. (we would certainly be in the 1% or less area atm)
THE BIGGEST FACTOR IN LCD HEALTH is outside preasure from users pressing on the screen, period. These problems are almost non existant in panos and TT's.
However, keep in mind that the area in between the glass plates in sealed and would be suseptable to extreme heat or climate change etc.
I have allways wondered if a working game would last longer than one left alone, Why you ask? because the LC is continually "mixed" when current is past through, thus not give time to "seperate" or form section of solid areas within a sprite. I can't really say much about that, I'd need to know more about the chemical compounds. Interesting theory but, in any case I leave batterys in my EGG just in case while on display. I did notice once with an RC-04 that had blotchy sprites that they got better after a few hours with batterys inserted.
These screens can't really be compared to any new technology as they are 100% different in construction and design.
-B
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Post by pulse8 on Sept 9, 2004 13:54:25 GMT 2
sAner, I think you need to keep in mind that these LCD TVs they're talking about are made using BRAND NEW technology. The basic LCD screens in G&Ws made circa 1980 are of far inferior quality, and were made a LONG time before the current LCD flat screen colour TVs of today! I think if you generally look after your games, they'll last a long time yet pulse8
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Post by andycole on Sept 9, 2004 13:56:40 GMT 2
These screens can't really be compared to any new technology as they are 100% different in construction and design. -B That last sentence in your very interesting post is the most important one, Brendan. LCD technology has improved greatly sincd these games were made. 60,000 hours is likely nowadays but don't forget in the early 80's LCD technology was still quite young. As I said in my interview, I did look for info on the life of LCD's and the only thing I found that didn't relate to TV's was about calculators and that page said that 1970's LCD calculators had a very short life. It didn't give an indication in years or hours, though. I think we can all rest assured that our games will still be playable long after we're gone. Andy.
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Post by Br3nd4N on Sept 9, 2004 14:16:03 GMT 2
Yer, for sure. it's an unknown thing really. But regardless most devices of this nature have a general MTBF (mean time before Falure), and I don't see enough dying to start me worrying just yet, unless there all going to die at once... :biggrin:
-B
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Post by mpanayiotakis on Sept 9, 2004 14:46:08 GMT 2
I think the only other comparable product is a calculator with an lcd screen (which works pretty much the same way). I've never seen a calculator die due to its lcd screen, have you ? This makes me believe that all games with faulty screens were the result of misuse and really bad weather conditions - nothing to do with the quality of the product which is the issue here.
As Andy and Slash wrote, g&w screens aren't comparable to lcd tvs or monitors. Not only because of the technology used but due to their size, they're prone to damage more than their g&w counterparts.
Now, this matter makes me think: if gravity is the only force applied to the lcd "plates" of the games (which are glued to each other) which is the best way to store the games ? Vertically, horizontally, on the side ?
Michael
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Post by sAner on Sept 9, 2004 20:21:49 GMT 2
Thanks for all the comments guys! Now, this matter makes me think: if gravity is the only force applied to the lcd "plates" of the games (which are glued to each other) which is the best way to store the games ? Vertically, horizontally, on the side ? Michael I have thought about that many, many times and at one point (about 1,5 years ago when I was still storing my games vertically i.e. upright in shoeboxes) I started a thread about this on Spinal's forum. For some reason I just know storing them upright is NOT good. Therefore I keep all my games flat nowadays. I can't justify this thesis though, it's just a gut feeling. What are your thoughts on this matter? sAner
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Post by Br3nd4N on Sept 10, 2004 0:20:52 GMT 2
Flat for sure, but I recon it would also depend on if the game is active or not. i.e store it flat if theres no batterys in, otherwise it probably wont matter all that much, because the sprites are moving anyhow.
On another interesting and probably pointless point, have you ever looked at any really old window pains? like 100 ish years+. Well if you have you will notice that the bottom of the glass is wider than the top, why? becuase glass even in it's sold state over a long time will "runs" most sold objects do, i.e metal etc. Anyhow I suspect in a few hundred years time if the LCD did last this effect would finally kill it! (unless you constantly rotated or stored it different every 10 years) lol
-B
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Post by devster on Sept 10, 2004 0:39:29 GMT 2
I'm off to invent a g&w rotating device and I'll sell it to you lot for $19.99 :biggrin: :laugh:
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Post by mpanayiotakis on Sept 10, 2004 0:59:42 GMT 2
I'm not so sure that it's "flat for sure"! From what I've seen the lcd screen doesn't touch the mainboard of the game. It stands on the air just above it and is hold in position by two rubber things. I'm not sure what gravity will do in case it's left this way for long but I'm sure the result will be a lot worse than if the game was standing up! Michael
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Post by Br3nd4N on Sept 10, 2004 2:26:25 GMT 2
I was thinking more about the LC in the screen, i.e you would not want all the liguid to run to the bottom of the sprite, storing it flat would mean an even covering accross the sprite.
Again not knowing the chemical structure of the LC it's hard to say i.e will it's components split etc.
-B
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Post by sAner on Sept 11, 2004 9:47:00 GMT 2
I'm not so sure that it's "flat for sure"! From what I've seen the lcd screen doesn't touch the mainboard of the game. It stands on the air just above it and is hold in position by two rubber things. I'm not sure what gravity will do in case it's left this way for long but I'm sure the result will be a lot worse than if the game was standing up! Michael Well guys, can you make up your minds please :confused: I really would like to know whether I should store games flat or upright. My gutfeeling says that I should store them flat and Slash's story makes sense. Then again, Mike's comments are also pretty valid if you ask me. HOW the hell should we store our g&w's. Anyone? Please? QJ? sAner
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Post by QJ on Sept 12, 2004 1:37:27 GMT 2
I really don't think it makes any difference if games are stored horizonal or vertically. The LCD screen is secured quite tight inside the game so I don't think there's any chance of it moving or sliping since the case of the game is holding everything square in position.
The most important factor (in my view) to preserve the LCD is to keep it away from high temperature, out of humidity and direct sunlight.
/QJ
P.S. My apologies Mike if this message appears as a double posting, the "Too Many Connections" error appeared on the first attempt and unsure if it was actually entered or not :smile:
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Post by sAner on Sept 12, 2004 10:12:48 GMT 2
I really don't think it makes any difference if games are stored horizonal or vertically. The LCD screen is secured quite tight inside the game so I don't think there's any chance of it moving or sliping since the case of the game is holding everything square in position. The most important factor (in my view) to preserve the LCD is to keep it away from high temperature, out of humidity and direct sunlight. /QJ P.S. My apologies Mike if this message appears as a double posting, the "Too Many Connections" error appeared on the first attempt and unsure if it was actually entered or not Thanks QJ, for the very reassuring words! sAner
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Post by Br3nd4N on Sept 12, 2004 12:56:54 GMT 2
Yer, I agree about the screen, but the only part in the game that I can see that would be affected would be the Liquid Crystal within the screen itself, and we have to keep in mind that it's just that, Liquid!
-B
Update, please read article I wrote on my site in regard to LCD's (click banner below)
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