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Post by andycole on Nov 3, 2009 11:44:45 GMT 2
Hi all
I have some news! Unfortunately it doesn't help us as much as I'd like.... Ramrodius has provided his serial number......It's the same game that I already saw on ebay all those years ago, S1389220. What's strange is that the auction I saw was for a loose game and I'm 95% certain that the price was around £30. I mentioned this before in one of the old threads and James (Ramrodius) had said that he paid less than that, and also his game is boxed. That's a bit of a mystery, but now we can take one game off the list, as 2 of the games I thought were out there are actually one and the same. About the box, it's possible, I suppose, that the game was always box but the box didn't feature in the auction.
Aris, I'm not surprised that you missed some of what's been going on in the last few posts, there has been a hell of a lot!!
Mike, about the numbers, I think you completely missed the point of my calculations. I was trying to work out an estimate of the number of white games because we don't know. We do know that we've seen approximately 0.04675% of all the games that were ever made, according to serial number ranges, so working upwards from this figure, 7 games that we now know exist, divided by 0.04675% is 14793. This figure is EXTREMELY volatile, of course. Before today, I thought that there were 8 white SS's now we know there are only 7, so the figure has dropped from 17,000 to under 15,000. I am also aware that we pay more attention to the white games than we do the silver ones, so the 0.04% figure could be much higher, making the number of games produced much lower. Get it?!
Taki's theory about paint is a truly excellent one. It would bring us nicely halfway between the 'mistake' theory and the 'special edition' theory. It's not special but it was intentional. I don't know much about paint but there is probably some truth about metallic paint containing something that plain paint doesn't. It shouldn't be too difficult to find out.
Andy
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Post by rensmits on Nov 3, 2009 12:10:39 GMT 2
Well, considering that most of the white games were sold on ebay USA, we can rule out the banned silver paint. We see enough spitball games from the US which have silver paint. If it was something like a banned paint, all the games should have come from another country then the US. A country from which we haven't seen normal silver spitballs. Or could it be possible that there was one or two states within the US that had a bann on this kind of paint?
René
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Post by runepune on Nov 3, 2009 12:58:57 GMT 2
Isn't that an italian seal and paperwork in the link to Ramrodius's game? But then again, as Andy mentioned, the box is probably from another game. Another thing too, if the games were released in the US only, shouldn't they have been pocketsize releases?
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Post by Aris on Nov 3, 2009 17:02:01 GMT 2
Hey guys, Yes, all good points, as usual! I too think Taki's point is a good one, it's something we never thought of. Could be true, but, could also not have anything to do with why the white ones were made. The USA is famous for having different laws for their different States, so, you could be onto something Rene, when you say that perhaps it was something that applied to certain States only. Paul's WCG was sold from Florida. Mike, do you remember where the seller was located for yours? Or, do you remember his ID?? From his ID, we should be able to pull up his profile on ebay and see where he's situated. And what about your collector guy Andy? Do you know where he resides? I'm going to send Taki another message, asking him where he got his. He may answer it, or he may not, but, it would be interesting to know if he got it from the USA, Japan, or some other country. I'll keep you in the loop as to what I hear back from him, if anything. And yes Runepune, that is an Italian box and paperwork that James (Ramrodius) has the white SS game in, but, my guess is that the SS game he had was loose, and he just put it in the Italian box to make it look more "authentically" rare. Not a lot of people have Italian boxed games, nor do we know much about Italian releases, so, by putting a rare game like a WSS in an Italian box with Italian paperwork, it kind of gives the impression that the WSS was a rare Italian release, and IMO, I think, gives it a bit more autenticity than having it loose, or just in a regular box, if you know what I mean..... One last shocker for you guys: I heard back from gameandwatchfreak (who's in Switzerland) the White CG game he won from Paul earlier this year has serial 1400380! Yes, that's right folks, when I was pestering Paul about getting his WCG and WSS serials, I started getting responses like: "F*ck and double F*ck!!!" I was like what's going on man? It turned out, when he went to check his WCG game, it had his white SPITBALL SPARKY game in the foam, not the white CRAB GRAB game!!! He accidentally sold the wrong game!!!! So, the only WCG game we know of, is now owned by gameandwatchfreak, and Paul is left with the original packaging of a WCG game! What a bummer!!!! So yes, Andy, you could have sworn there were two WCG games, well, on Patrick's database, there are two, but, they're the same ones. I've been in contact with Olivier (gameandwatchfreak) to let him know Paul wanted to buy the game back, but, his reply was that it was essentially, not for sale! Paul, I'll do what I can to get it back for you bud, but, I really don't think this guy is going to budge, especially if he visits this forum and has been reading the latest posts on white Supercolour games. Actually guys, I think all this research and discussion has probably increased the value of your white SS games!!! ;D Well, that's all for now, keep the posts rolling, and those of you who haven't yet, please provide me with your serials, or any serials you come across for Supercolour games on ebay, Tradera, Marktplaats, YJ, etc..... Thanks in advance, AC
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Post by andycole on Nov 3, 2009 18:41:43 GMT 2
Considering that none of the people we've discussed so far have bought their games new, and their sellers were either forgotten or didn't know anything, I think we'll be chasing shadows looking at what state people live in.
I can add some more information about the Ramrodius game, and that is that he bought it from the UK ebayer as a deal with some other games and that it was already boxed. So either the UK seller boxed it, which I find very unlikely considering he didn't even make a profit on it, or it was boxed as sold on ebay but the box was not shown.
Isn't there a way of looking at really really old auctions? If anyone's aware of the internet wayback machine, just like that, but for ebay!
Like you say, though, Aris, it is an Italian box, but none of the other boxed white games are, unless I'm mistaken. This could be valuable information or it could be unimportant. It's possible that all the other boxed white spitballs were put in transplanted, non-Italian boxes before being sold, or it's possible that the Italian box was transplanted onto James' one. If these were the original boxes, then the fact that the boxes don't match would all but rule out the 'no paint allowed' theory.
So, let me get this right, Paul sold his only WCG, thinking that it was in fact a spare WCG?! How can you not know how many you've got of such an important game?! LOL!
I don't think the value of these games will increase until we know something definite. What that something might be, I have no idea. If we could prove EITHER production numbers OR the purpose of these games, I'd be very happy and I think that they'd have a purpose in a collection, other than as a curio, and then the value would increase.
Andy
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Post by sAner on Nov 3, 2009 19:20:49 GMT 2
Hi guys! Wow, this was a long but very, very interesting read! First of all I will give you the serials to the supercolor games I once owned (and they were all silver unfortunately): SS (boxed) - S1094531 SS (loose) - S1209886 CG (boxed) - S1332023 I have to say (but maybe I am thinking this way because I am a lawyer) that Taki's idea sounds extremely plausible to me. Even though lots of white SS's were sold on ebay US that doesn't mean there wasn't a good reason for creating white units. Like René & Aris suggested it could easily have been the case that some states in the US banned the silver paint and some states didn't. I don't think the risks of led and cadmium in silver paint were widespread (or even known) back in the 1980's but maybe some other reason made Nintendo ban the silver paint in some states or countries. To me it sounds ridiculous that Nintendo ran out of paint. Even back in the 80's a huge firm like Nintendo could have easily calculated how much silver paint they would have needed to spraypaint a certain amount of units. In my honest opinion you can rule that idea out. It must have been done intentionally. I believe the white units are white because Nintendo wanted them to be white. I think Taki's idea is going somewhere. Apart from a ban, what other reason could have been there for Nintendo to create white super color games on purpose? Regards, Pieter Ps- Hey Andy, I bet you're really glad you kept the white sparky eh? I told you should never sell that game!
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Post by devster on Nov 3, 2009 23:24:17 GMT 2
triple f*ck!!!!! Yeah Mike not sure what I was thinking!! The mental thing is I do remember saying to myself at the time I don't remember having 2!!!!!! Its a shame as it came with the original box complete along with the original (opened) batteries. sh*t happens I'll wait and see what news Aris "Samuel L Jackson" Constantini brings!!! 1) I will now try and read this thread before christmas. 2) Has anyone tried to take the silver off a game yet? 3) Is there life in Peckham. 4) Andrew Wee is not at home at the moment so you will have to wait for the serials - 2 were out of sequence I think. 5) Mike - Did the package turn up yet? L8R edit: ok, i read it all - is it christmas yet?! The MJ auction - Magic ;D Working out after a week that the 87 serial might be in another box of 10 - priceless! respect and a tipping of the hat for a most in depth investigation mike receiving the games - just checked my ebay feedback - question answered! the game was a promotion / special - I say no, I have an original white cg box with papers with no mention of an error or prize. paint banned in certain places - i like it error that went through (missed the paint process) - I like it more - why, here's why has anyone ever bought mini jaffa cakes? I have the kids love them (me too!!) they come in small plastic cartons and have 6 in each, well not in every carton! In at least one carton there are 7 jaffa cakes im not sure if it still happens but will check tomorrow (havent bought any for a while - point is there was a fault with the production line, now they either know about it and it would cost too much to put it right or because there are millions going through, no one notices. i think you will find in most production lines you get misses, error etc and thats the way it goes - customer takes it back for a refund if ther is a proplem I had a pack of chocolate buttons (from a multi bag) with no buttons inside when i opened the bag!! this could just be a simple case of every 5000 one got missed my 2 pence and lastly..... 43657551 to 43657560 thats how my box of ten blackjacks roll V0713451 to V0713460 is how the dk hockey box rolls out
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Post by bacco on Nov 4, 2009 3:10:32 GMT 2
I've got a question. About 18 months to perhaps 2 years ago i'm not sure i remember seeing a NOA pocketsice crab grab which was whited coloured cased. I remember it reaching something like $800 i know because i was the one who pushed the price way up there and being outbidded by someone in the last few seconds? Aris is this the one that you refer to as Paul having? Arthur Does anyone remember the game mentioned above? It was a NOA Crab grab with white case. Has this been entered into the database? Also would this make it the only NOA White Crab Grab in existence that we know of? Arthur
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Post by Aris on Nov 4, 2009 6:41:39 GMT 2
Hey Arthur, I don't remember seeing the game you're describing, and it doesn't come up on Patrick's database either.... There is one NOA CG game that sold for $788 USD back in June of 2007. Here's a pic of it: I think this must be the one you're referring to Arthur, as it meets the price and, more or less, time frame you indicated. The only thing is, it's not a WCG game. My guess would be that an NOA WCG does not exist, but, one never knows.... Are you absolutely certain it was white AND in an NOA box? I can't see Patrick missing it if it was, especially since it went the full distance of the auction, and was not BINNED before others could see it. AC
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Post by Aris on Nov 4, 2009 7:13:19 GMT 2
error that went through (missed the paint process) - I like it more - why, here's why has anyone ever bought mini jaffa cakes? I have the kids love them (me too!!) they come in small plastic cartons and have 6 in each, well not in every carton! In at least one carton there are 7 jaffa cakes im not sure if it still happens but will check tomorrow (havent bought any for a while - point is there was a fault with the production line, now they either know about it and it would cost too much to put it right or because there are millions going through, no one notices. i think you will find in most production lines you get misses, error etc and thats the way it goes - customer takes it back for a refund if ther is a proplem I had a pack of chocolate buttons (from a multi bag) with no buttons inside when i opened the bag!! LOL!!! Leave it to Paul to compare the production of white Supercolour games to cakes and chocolates.... I had a pack of chocolate buttons (from a multi bag) with no buttons inside when i opened the bag!! Yeah, you also had a boxed WCG game, with no WCG inside when you opened the box too! Sorry dude, couldn't resist! ;D Paul, it can't be a scenario where they missed one every 5000 or so, because the white Supercolour serials don't make an appearance until about 386,000 units into production. And even then, they all seem to be grouped together, not spaced out randomly (which would probably more likely suggest an error where certain games missed the spaying process). Now, while this number (386,000) is close to the end of the production line for Supercolour games, we can't say "ah, it was near the end of the line for Supercolour games, so, of course they ran out of paint, and that explains why white ones were made" because, at least one silver SS was made AFTER the white SS were made. This is why it is so important to get as many serials as we can from collectors here, because their serials may help us establish whether regular SS games were made after the white ones, and if regular CG games were made after the WCG game(s), etc.... Thanks for the Serials on your full shippers of BJ and DKH! I'll add them to the database. AC out
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Post by andycole on Nov 4, 2009 11:35:35 GMT 2
Paul's input on the shipper serial numbers confirms Aris' theory about the close together SS and CG serials. Games in shippers started at 1 and ended at 0. So, the 80 SS and 87 CG are entirely possible. It just goes to show how mixed the production was, though.
This doesn't really help our white investigation much but it makes me wonder about how and when serial numbers were applied. I think that there are 2 likely possibilities:
1. The serial numbers are applied after the painting (or missing the painting!) stage but before main assembly takes place, and are probably applied by a machine. I think this because all of the case backs, after painting, are essentially the same, so could go through a serial applying machine fairly mixed, although not too mixed, as they would need to be sorted for further assembly. Minimum in batches of 10 of each game, which would tie-in with the close serial numbers we have seen.
2. The serial stickers are given to workers and are manually applied during or after final assembly. The stickers could be given out on a fairly random basis, so a run of 10 stickers could be in one person's hands, assembling spitball, while on the other side of the bench, someone else has the next to stickers, and is assembling crab grab.
Both of these scenarios would be possible with the way we've seen the numbers all mixed together. Of course, all of the crab grab serials start a lot higher due to their later launch, but after that they are mixed. Personally, I think that scenario 2 is the most likely, because I think that small mixed batches of cases coming on to the assembly line could cause mistakes, with wrong games going into wrong cases. We really need lots and lots more serials, though, to help us with this. I can't help feeling that without lots and lots more serials, this thread is going to be slowing down, as we seem to have discovered or discussed more or less everything we can.
Andy
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Post by Aris on Nov 4, 2009 17:57:35 GMT 2
Paul's input on the shipper serial numbers confirms Aris' theory about the close together SS and CG serials. Games in shippers started at 1 and ended at 0. So, the 80 SS and 87 CG are entirely possible. It just goes to show how mixed the production was, though. This doesn't really help our white investigation much but it makes me wonder about how and when serial numbers were applied. I think that there are 2 likely possibilities: 1. The serial numbers are applied after the painting (or missing the painting!) stage but before main assembly takes place, and are probably applied by a machine. I think this because all of the case backs, after painting, are essentially the same, so could go through a serial applying machine fairly mixed, although not too mixed, as they would need to be sorted for further assembly. Minimum in batches of 10 of each game, which would tie-in with the close serial numbers we have seen. 2. The serial stickers are given to workers and are manually applied during or after final assembly. The stickers could be given out on a fairly random basis, so a run of 10 stickers could be in one person's hands, assembling spitball, while on the other side of the bench, someone else has the next to stickers, and is assembling crab grab. Both of these scenarios would be possible with the way we've seen the numbers all mixed together. Of course, all of the crab grab serials start a lot higher due to their later launch, but after that they are mixed. Personally, I think that scenario 2 is the most likely, because I think that small mixed batches of cases coming on to the assembly line could cause mistakes, with wrong games going into wrong cases. We really need lots and lots more serials, though, to help us with this. I can't help feeling that without lots and lots more serials, this thread is going to be slowing down, as we seem to have discovered or discussed more or less everything we can. Andy Andy, Good point about confirming my theory on those two "close together" serials of SS and CG. I think if we're able to confirm this fact (that shippers all started with serials ending in a "1" and ended in serials ending with a "0") with absolutely no doubt at all, then, I can fill in a lot more serial numbers on my tables just by following this pattern, if you catch my drift! Besides Andrew (who, to my knowledge, has two shippers full - DKJR & SS), is there anyone else here that has a shipper full of games? The more we can confirm, the more certain we can be that they all started and ended like this! I'll give ebay a quick look and see if any of those shippers of BJ, DKH or DK3 are are still on auction. Wait a minute... There was a member here who has a shipper full of DKH I believe. I think he mentioned he bought one of Ash888. Whoever has a shipper full of games, please let me know the serials so I can add them to the database, and confirm our hunch on starting and ending serials within a shipper. How the serial number stickers were applied to the games is a great topic for discussion! When I look at the stickers, for the most part, they seem to be placed almost perfectly into the slightly recessed rectangular serial number groove. There is the odd few that I've seen where they're slightly askew, but, for the most part, they're almost perfect. Now, I don't know if you guys have ever had to place a small sticker into a specific area before, but I have to do it ever 6 months for the water filter in my fridge, but I've also had to do it with various toys my son has played with throughout the past few years, and I tell you, it's not that easy to get it perfectly in place, and I'm pretty particular about these sorts of things!!! So, having said that, I'd say the stickers were NOT applied manually, and that it was a controlled process where after the game was assembled, the stickers were then added. The reason I think the stickers were added AFTER the game was assembled, is because if they were applied BEFORE the game was assembled, and there was a problem during the assembly stage of the manufacturing process, then, you'd have to somehow remove tht sticker and place it on the next game, which, I'm sure is not that easy to do. However, Mike's site has some pictures of the assembly line of G&W manufacturing, and it looks like people did some of the work manually (I've never worked in a manufacturing factory where electronic products were made on an assembly line, so, I don't know if it's normally all done by machines, or if there is quite a bit of human assembly involved throughout the assembly line) so, maybe the serials were applied manually??? I just think handing out stickers to people to apply manually can cause all sorts of problems. (dropping some of the stickers... bending the serial strips while trying to peel them off the paper they came on... what if a worker had to go to the washroom, or needed to get some water? Did their line of games stop, while other got serials out of sequence??? Did they hand their stickers to someone else who also had other stickers, and may have mixed them up??? I don't know, I think the process was a bit more controlled. I know there is some overlap of numbers, but, I still think it was done in a controlled manner. Looking at my Silver and Gold games database, I can see that five games have serials that start with at least 2 leading zeros (00.....) So, based on what I have so far: Ball's 2 leading zeros serial number range looks like this: 00126694 00128949 00165703 00192549 00745395 Flagman's 2 leading zeros serial number range looks like this: 00100687 00230670 00233666 00283218 00288257 Vermin's 2 leading zeros serial number range looks like this: 00309414 00325804 00327915 00329690 00339078 00348879 00607703 00915523 Fire's 2 leading zeros serial number range looks like this: 00362003 00371617 00378360 00388093 00390829 00395846 00448502 00678147 00691882 00720154 00826927 00883440 Judge's (Green) 2 leading zeros serial number range looks like this: 00596039 00596961 00680967 00684075 00791320 00981268 So yeah, there's definitely crossover, but somewhat controlled. It's not like Ball has serial 00100000 and Flagman has serial 00100001. From what I can see so far, it looks like Vermin's serials may have started at around 00300000 and then went to about 00349999. Then Fire's serials started at 00350000 and went to about 00399999. Actually, it probably went higher, since there's a Fire game with serial 00448502. Okay, I've found something strange amongst three Silver games.... Vermin has serial 00607703 Fire has serial 00678147 Fire has serial 00691882 Judge (G) has serial 00680967 Judge (G) has serial 00684075 This would suggest that Fire had a range somewhere after 00607703 that probably ended at 00679999, then, Judge (Green) probably had a range of 00680000 to 00684999 (or maybe even to 00689999) and then Fire has a range from 00690000 to 00694999 or more. This does make it very confusing as there doesn't appear to be a system, per se, for these serials. I mean, it's not likely that you'll find two (or more) different Silver games with consecutive serial numbers, but, it does look like some runs could have been as small as five or ten thousand for one game, then crossed over to a completely different game and continued from there for 5 or 10 thousand games, then.... went back to the first game, for 5 or 10 thousand more! Anybody got any Silver and Gold serials to throw my way??? ;D AC
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Post by runepune on Nov 4, 2009 20:29:18 GMT 2
I have a full DKH shipper. Just went to have a look at the serials and this kind of blew me away. There is quite a spread in the serials. I don't know how this fits into all, but I have to admit that I'm a little disappointed. Here's the serials V0665403 V0665404 V0665673 V0671363 V0671364 V0671370 V0671372 V0671395 V0671397 V0671402
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Post by richy80 on Nov 4, 2009 23:59:33 GMT 2
I followed this topic open-eyed, I had something to share with you, but unfortunately I had no account here, so I had to register, and wait when my account was approved. My Silver SS game has also a very high serialnumber: S1394931About the "paintingjob". I'm almost for sure it cannot be a hickup of the paintingmachine that there are some "white" SS games, I'm almost for sure (But some who is familiair with production processes of other items like Remotecontrols, or other kind of hardware can confirm) that the game is definitely NOT silver painted AFTER assemblage. What I think is that for a normal SS game, the front, back and batterycover are painted seperately. And assembled together as a G&W game. When a paintingmachine had a "hickup", it's nearly impossible it had problems with both the front, back and batterycover, unless it was combined together as a "plastic models": upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Plastic-model-F18.jpgEdit reason: Image was replaced by a link since it's too big and destroys the look of the forum..
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Post by devster on Nov 5, 2009 0:50:42 GMT 2
Hey Runepune, Don't feel bad, I just checked my Box of DKH and the same thing!! I forget to check them yesterday and only did the DK3 and BJ Boxes. So we now know in certain series, there was no sequential numbering system!!!!! Or that both the people we got them from mixed them up / collected them separately? Seems odd to happen on the DKH though? My old SS were a striaght run with two swapped out. My Serials for DKH V0647789 V0647790 V0666805 V0666806 V0666813 V0666833 v0667264 V0667270 V0667293 V0667294 PD
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