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Post by andycole on Jul 23, 2008 17:06:53 GMT 2
Hi All A couple of days ago I decided to get all my games out to do a group shot and to my horror I noticed some crystal staining on the screen of my Flagman This, along with all my other games has been stored in a padded 'flight case' (like the sort you see at the airport scene at the end of Toy Story) 2 and for the past few years, these cases were in a cupboard in my house well away from sunlight, damp and heat. I have recently moved house and the cases are now on the floor of my bedroom but I was still confident that the cases were adequate protection for the games inside. Anyway, I can't be sure when the staining happened but I'm quite surprised by it. It's been a long time since I looked at the game though. Well, I can't do anything about it now but the moral of the story is......You really can't do enough to protect your games. Even if the boxes are in boxes, think about the best environment to store those boxes! You have been warned! Andy
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fuzgi
Junior Member
Posts: 86
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Post by fuzgi on Jul 23, 2008 17:30:09 GMT 2
Andy, Game & Watch games are like pets. You have to care for them. You need to spend time with them. Otherwise they "go south" or imbrute. Don't store them under your bed. Give them a nice place to stay. A glass cabinet for example.
No, seriously. It's sad that things like this happen. I'm feel sorry and sad when such nice games destroy themselves.
Btw, a little hint. You know those tape boxes, cassette boxes? Those cassettes that were used when there were no CDs yet. Those cases can be used perfectly for storing loose Silver and Gold games. Use a little boubble foil to make it soft.
-Marcel
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Post by mpanayiotakis on Jul 23, 2008 22:41:05 GMT 2
Sad to hear this Andy! By crystal staining you mean lcd bleeding ? I've got my silver games in a glass cabinet for more than 4 years now and never had a problem but I suppose it can happen.. Especially if the games had been exposed to humid environments before..
Michael
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Post by andycole on Jul 24, 2008 10:12:39 GMT 2
I would consider a glass cabinet one of the worst places to store G&W, because if the room warms up, you'll get the 'greenhouse effect' inside the cabinet. That is, the cabinet will be even warmer inside than the room. But if yours have been in a glass cabinet, Mike, then it seems that the environmant is not the only factor.
It seems ironic and also significant that it's flagman. I think we see more LCD defects in this game than any other, with the possible exception of egg. Would you agree? Perhaps this game was destined to get these defects regardless of how it was kept.
I call it crystal staining, you call it lcd bleeding. I don't know if anyone's proved what actually happens here but personally I don't think that the liquid crystal actually bleeds out from it's container. It could be simply a discoloration of the material that surrounds the liquids. After all, we've seen games with extremely bad symptoms and the sprites still all appear perfectly. Surely if the liquid crystal bled out of it's container, then the sprite wouldn't appear when it should?
About the game's previous home....I bought it from the USA, I can't remember where. What about yours, Mike? I also thought that Greece was one of the hottest places in Europe.
Andy
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Post by mpanayiotakis on Jul 24, 2008 20:48:13 GMT 2
Well it is, 38-40 degrees celcius is common in the summer. I don't know maybe humidity affects these games more than anything else although we don't know for sure why some games tend to "bleed" inside the lcd screen.. What's causing it, I mean.. Silver and gold games are more affected from what I've seen. I suppose lcd technology got better over time and latest games are almost immune to this problem!
Michael
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Post by Br3nd4N on Jul 25, 2008 4:12:18 GMT 2
I have allways personally wondered if were on the wrong track, we know that games don't like high temp, but I also wonder if they don't like low temp as well?
Does anyhow know what tempature Liquid Crystal freezes? maybe there is the possibility that temps of close to 0, possibly 1-5deg are also bad as the crystals start to expand as they get close to freezing point and "crack" causing the bleeding. Or somthing else in the LCD, the sandwitching material etc.
This also happens when you freese cells, as the ice breaks them, and there useless once your unfreeze them.
I suspect the temp in a storage case in a cupboard could get quite cold at certain times of the year.
somthing to resaerch maybe.
-B
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Post by andycole on Jul 25, 2008 11:13:42 GMT 2
I don't think that cold caused it in my case, although I'm not saying that's not a good theory. The cupboard would never have dropped below about 15 degrees in winter. If it is heat related, I'm guessing that it happened since I moved, as it's now hot summer and the cases are not in a dark cool cupboard. Someone needs to sacrifice a couple of games for the cause! Any volunteers? Anyone with a silver or gold game that is already knackered buy has no LCD damage?! I got rid of all my spares ages ago otherwise I'd volunteer one. Andy
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Post by mpanayiotakis on Jul 25, 2008 19:14:41 GMT 2
Yes, that would be an interesting experiment but since these things take time, how would you know what affected the game ?
Michael
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Post by Br3nd4N on Jul 26, 2008 0:09:29 GMT 2
I have a fair bit of spare kit, screen etc I'll see if I can find a working one, and place it in the fridge, that should cause it to stay at a few degrees above 0.
-B
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Post by andycole on Jul 28, 2008 11:24:12 GMT 2
Well done Brendan!
That's the sort of experiment I was thinking of. Put one in a fridge and one on a hot window sill. Check the games after a week or two. I'm pretty sure that we'd se an effect quite quickly. This is of course accelerated damage but it would sure give us an idea of what causes the most damage. I wouldn't be surprised if both games came out damaged, but perhaps with different symptoms. I'd take a guess that the heated one would show black marks and the cooled one would look fine but the crystals would no longer light up because they've cracked or something.
Andy
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Post by mpanayiotakis on Jul 28, 2008 14:17:12 GMT 2
Let us know how it goes!!
Michael
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Post by keewan on Aug 3, 2008 13:35:37 GMT 2
A little different from what you guys were talking about, but it is related to taking care of your games. I find a lot of games have old stickers and and glue marks on them. So I usually clean them up when I receive the game. Here is an example of a game I recieved from Andy today Old glue mark in front and a sticker in the back. All cleaned up! I just put some lighter fuel on a piece of tissue paper, then put the tissue wet area on top of the sticker, few seconds later, use a stamp tong to lift the sticker. Then more lighter fuel on the tissue paper to wipe the left over glue out. I didn't search if this topic have been discussed before, sorry for repost if it's well known method. Just throught I would share what I do with my games.
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Post by pablo on Aug 3, 2008 17:48:09 GMT 2
Well done! nice work. But there are other kind of stickers that i don't think will work with this method. Those are the "distributed by" stickers that we often see in some games. Some company games used them. The glue it's a lot harder. That's why i decided to left them. You also must be careful not to use many product to avoid discolour the box. The baby stickers, are also very easy to clean without any danger.
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Post by mpanayiotakis on Aug 4, 2008 12:38:16 GMT 2
Yes, price stickers and glue residue are rather easy to clean. Bigger and old stickers are a pain in the .. !!
Michael
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Post by andycole on Aug 5, 2008 17:28:46 GMT 2
Wow, I can't believe that result I would have thought that the brown mark on the front of the box was permanent. Nice work and very useful advice. You weren't tempted to remove the KE-Leg sticker then? Andy.
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