Mario Bros Ym - 105

[sinkbaek]

Hi guys

Firstly: There's no denying that I'm stubborn....often even too stubborn... My pride forgives me to say that I'm more stubbern than Mike....so let's just say that I give him a good run for his money

And.... I kinda agree with Andy.... This is getting boring....

But my stubborness forbids me to to leave it at that without a last comment. So I'll just give my last say on the matter

You say that the process would be too labor-intensive for it to be a hoax? Well....wouldn't that also qualify it not to be a hoax? The model numbers is obviously made by hand - take a look at them and say that this isn't true.... I've used this example before - but take a look at it and say the shape of the "M" in "YM-105" isn't the result of the stencil slipping while tracing it with a pen: cgi.ebay.com/1988-Nintendo-GAME-WATCH-SUPER-MARIO-BROS-oem-BOXED-/380176517818

Another example: cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360194389337
In this one the "Super Mario Bros." part bounces all over the place - like letters often do, when you apply them by hand using a stencil. You should also pay attention to the "5" - there's a line wich looks suspiciously like the slip of a pen.
A thing that goes for pretty much all of the pictures of "OEM"s is that the lines of the model numbers and game names are uneven - like they would be when made pen bouncing off the corrugation of the cardboard box.
The point is that this just doesn't make any sense to be made by a proffesional company. One thing is that it looks seriously unproffesional and....as Andy correctly puts it...like crap. Another thing is that the person responsible for production would have had to've been seriously demented if he couldn't see that paying a guy to do this would be an extreme waste of money. Having sold thousands upon thousands of games in regionalized packaging you could have ordered a couple of stamps saying "YM-105" etc....pay a guy to wait around for the stamps to be made....and then have him stamp the boxes....And STILL have the boxes ready both faster and cheaper than by having some dude to mark them with a pen
So what I'm saying is that I'm convinced that the markings on the boxes were made by hand.... And before someone can give me an example of any other product that Nintendo has ever shipped in hand marked (excluding their handmade playing cards of course ) generic containers, then I can't see any reason to believe that these white boxes have or had anything to do with Nintendo.

By the way.... The boxes are sold in bundles of 50 from the factory. What you do with them after that, they don't care about. The only thing they have to say about the usage of these boxes is this : "Can be used to ship business forms, binders, catalogs, stationery, magazines, literature and videos"
You don't have to use them for this of course.... for example you could sell them at your office supply store in smaller bundles or one at the time

And lastly.... When I meassure a multi screen and compare it to the meassures of the box.... I get a gap of 1 cm. in length and just shy of a cm. in heigth (we're talking 0,8-0,9 cm.). While this isn't earthshatteringly off.....I wouldn't call it a "perfect fit".

Now I'll let it go and not bug you with my obsessiveness on the subject anymore

My parting comment on the subject will be..... I simply don't understand why so many are willing to believe the "OEM"'s are real - at least wait and see if anything shows up that tells us that these are real. All we know is that the boxes are sold to be used to mail stuff in them - stationary, videos etc. And there's good reason to think that the text on them were made by hand.....

Over and out

[Aris]

This discussion is not boring. On the contrary, it's quite interesting! However, having to read long posts to try and catch up on recent happenings can be tiresome, and maybe even a bit overwhelming, especially if the posts aren't structured properly. e.g. if someone's post was one big paragraph as opposed to four or five smaller paragraphs. Anyway, I think it's good that you bring up the points you do because it challenges others to think differently, and even question their own beliefs. A little bit of doubt, can go a long way, and you never know if something you say, can be the "Eureka" to this puzzle in someone else's eyes....

Having said that, I don't have any doubt that these are not fake. If these games first surfaced now, or even during the last year or so, I would be probably as suspicious as you are sinkbaek, but, these games appear to go back nearly 10 years ago, (maybe more....) and IMO, people were not doing the hoax thing with G&Ws back then. Sure, I guess it's possible that these boxes are "homemade" by some distributor or store owner whose stock of original boxes got damaged somehow, but, I doubt very much that someone like you or I thought up this so called scheme to profit on. And as I mentioned before, if someone did have the foresight to see this as a potential money making business (this whole hoax thing) he should have used BJ more, as they're cheaper, more readily available, and rarer in OEM form.

I think the model number, and (on some boxes) the name was stamped on, as opposed to drawn by hand on all 20+ games (top and bottom of the box) we know exist. I'm sure there are hundreds, if not thousands, more, and if you think about it, that's a lot of drawing by hand to do from one smart hoaxer....

The part about someone being able to get all that stock, in mint condition, yet no original box, is also hard to believe for me. I think the sample theory is still best, and the most likely reason for the OEMs' existence.

The other thing I think is interesting, is that all boxes have the model number on it, but not all boxes have the actual name of the game. Again, not something a collector like you or I, or even a store owner would do. I don't ever recall going into a store and referring to a game by the model number as opposed to the name of the game. Even now, I never say: "hmmm... I think I'm going to play my TC-58 or my JB-63". Who says that? Who refers to their games by model number rather than by game name? I'd be surprised if any collector here actually knew all the model numbers by heart! I know I don't!! Heck, I'd be shocked if I could rhyme off a quarter of them!!! The fact that the model number is the primary identifier on the box, makes me think it's more of a "manufacturing-based" source, than an end-user source.

Hoping the above post isn't too boring for anyone...

AC

[Aris]

Mar 5, 2010 21:29:03 GMT 2 flagman02 said:

Mar 2, 2010 19:51:15 GMT 2 Aris said:

Wow, what a thread!!! And all this came about via a simple question from Richard. See what you started Richard???!!!

Ha......i know,simple question and a near riot!.Very interesting reading though as i thought i would just get a definite answer regarding the background of these games.

Richard

Perfect example of why no question is "stupid". Look at everything that has happened since you posed that question Richard! We potentially found the source of the OEM boxes, we came up with some interesting theories on how OEMs came about (hoax, blisterpack/carded precursor, samples, prizes, demos, etc...) and even livened up the forum a bit!

Not sure how close we would have come to dropping 'bos on each other if we were having this discussion in person, but, I guess that part is just a testament to how passionate we are about our G&W games! ;D

AC

[sinkbaek]

Hi Aris

No you're right.... What I too meant was that the long posts were getting boring
And I know I said the last post would be the last.....but I just have to comment on yours - just a short comment though

Production of the games stopped almost 20 years ago. So the fact that the earliest anyone can remember seeing them is 10 years ago. Point being there's a gap of around 10 years supporting the theory that the boxes are fake - at least we can safely say that the boxes have nothing to do with Nintendo.
The model numbers are clearly hand drawn on using a stencil on some of the boxes - that I don't think is up for discussion (look at the examples).
Lastly I'm not saying they were put in the boxes 10 years ago as a part of a hoax. As said it could have been a collector doing it just as a way of storing loose games or shipping them to other collectors....the hoax, in my opinion, came into play much later, when there was a market for fakes...

[andycole]

Aris, I can reel off all the model numbers off by heart. I'd be very surprised if I'm the only one.

Mar 8, 2010 10:49:09 GMT 2 sinkbaek said:

Hi Aris


Production of the games stopped almost 20 years ago. So the fact that the earliest anyone can remember seeing them is 10 years ago. Point being there's a gap of around 10 years supporting the theory that the boxes are fake - at least we can safely say that the boxes have nothing to do with Nintendo.

I'd have to say that he gap doesn't prove anything either way. After all, we've seen official games we never knew existed surface in the last 3 years (NOA DKH)

Mar 8, 2010 10:49:09 GMT 2 sinkbaek said:

The model numbers are clearly hand drawn on using a stencil on some of the boxes - that I don't think is up for discussion (look at the examples).

Agreed.

Mar 8, 2010 10:49:09 GMT 2 sinkbaek said:

Hi Aris
Lastly I'm not saying they were put in the boxes 10 years ago as a part of a hoax. As said it could have been a collector doing it just as a way of storing loose games or shipping them to other collectors....the hoax, in my opinion, came into play much later, when there was a market for fakes...

Agreed. This is a far likelier possibility than them all being hoaxes.

Andy

[sinkbaek]

Mar 9, 2010 16:14:37 GMT 2 andycole said:

I'd have to say that he gap doesn't prove anything either way. After all, we've seen official games we never knew existed surface in the last 3 years (NOA DKH)

That's true.... I'll admit to that
It should be noted though... that the existence of NOA versions was known for a long time before that. The "OEM"s are not variations of a known "subspecies"...they're a whole new "subspecies"

[mpanayiotakis]

Mar 9, 2010 16:14:37 GMT 2 andycole said:

Aris, I can reel off all the model numbers off by heart. I'd be very surprised if I'm the only one.

Yes, you are the only one! ;D


Michael

[andycole]

Mar 10, 2010 0:59:23 GMT 2 mpanayiotakis said:

Mar 9, 2010 16:14:37 GMT 2 andycole said:

Aris, I can reel off all the model numbers off by heart. I'd be very surprised if I'm the only one.

Yes, you are the only one! ;D


Michael

I don't believe it! Come on, there must be someone else. Not even you, Mike?

Andy

[rensmits]

Mar 11, 2010 11:27:44 GMT 2 andycole said:

Mar 10, 2010 0:59:23 GMT 2 mpanayiotakis said:

Yes, you are the only one! ;D


Michael

I don't believe it! Come on, there must be someone else. Not even you, Mike?

Andy

I can!

Ball is AB-0 eh....... d.a.m.n!!!!!!!

René

[mpanayiotakis]

I can remember the majority of them but not every single one!


Michael

[tuesdayschild]

I just wanted to update regarding the OEM boxes in discussion back around January. Earlier I mentioned I met up with several employees with Nintendo during the Olympics here in Vancouver. There were a few of them that were have been with the company since the beginning of Nintendo in North America. Like we have all know before Nintendo of America had licensed the games to Micro games of America. They are the ones who released the games in Blister packs. The persons I spoke with said for sure the games that left Japan were in original boxes. Because all items imported must have a Manufactures Name and country of Origin on each box. The OEM boxes clearly don’t show this. However once here they said boxes and packaging could be changed. This is how I found out about blister packs. The reason for blister packaging was because of what they called “vandalism” Many stores did not have these games under glass display cases. They were out on store shelves where many children had found them opened them and innocently put batteries in the game and played them for a while their parents shopped. So many boxes were destroyed this way. They joked and said “this is why it was called pocketsize because so many ended up in kids pockets as they left the store". The damaged boxes and games ended up in discount bin. Several hundreds of thousands dollars were lost. The plan to stop this was the blister packs. As a prank one employee took the game electronics out and had it sealed in a package with no case. A few executives thought it looked good and in the 80’s there had been fad for clear plastic (see thru) items such as a telephone or radio. So with sales declining the idea was born. They actually made a few samples of a clear game & watch. These were never sold to the public. They made them as multi screen and wide screen but don't recall which models they were made. So if you thought you collection was complete… Be on the look out for clear Game & Watch games. Another interesting bit of info I recently found was Multi Screen games are for ages 8 and up. Supercolor games were for ages 12 and up. But Mickey panorama was for ages 3 and up. Why the big age difference? Don’t you think a 3 year old could squish their finger in a muti screen or panorama game?

[mpanayiotakis]

Interesting points.. Maybe they warrant a new thread? I'm not sure about the ages, supercolor games had this silver coating which might be damaging to a small child if swallowed but I really don't know why the panorama is more suited for younger children!

I'd be very interested to see a game&watch game with a transparent case but even if some of these samples are saved, my guess is that they never left Nintendo HQ! :smile:


Michael

[pheldge]

One of my friends works for DeWalt, and a few weeks ago, he showed me a couple of transparent tools. I thought they were new promotional items, but he told me that they were older than that : nearly 10 years. But they've not been presented correctly, and only a few people have seen them.

(But now I want one... ;D)

[greggpaea]

hello,
for Aris:
there is my new oem FA.........

[linuxgeek]

I was thinking (and I could be wrong), that the OEM boxes were used to ship games to places like france, UK, germany,USA etc where they would put their own packaging on them. This would make sense to me. However, the format of the OEM box/packaging would not. I have a SMB NWS one (previously had two), both in Multiscreen Foams... so maybe these were discarded completely to put into blister packs?